1Jn 1:1-3 use of "it"

JohnH commented

2021-09-13 19:48:44 +00:00

Owner

This is an issue sent to me from Dave Statezni.

c 1

\p

\v 1 That which was from
the beginning—which
we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at
and our hands have touched—concerning the
Word of life.

\v 2 Also, the
life was made known, and we have seen it
and testify to
it.
We are proclaiming to you the
eternal life, which was with the
Father, and which has been made known to
us.

My concern about this translation, and many others but not all, is the use of ‘it’, bold and italics above. There is no pronoun here in the Greek, as there is in the Gospel of John where the pronoun does exist in the Greek and is translated ‘he’. It would sure seem to me that there should be a TN on this; why add the ‘it’ or if you must add something why not use ‘he’, since the Word is Jesus. Maybe the ULB should also be reviewed on this.

Sorry for proposing this late-running kibitz, but it’s something my wife brought up to me in her reading this AM. “How can they call the Word ‘it’”?

This is an issue sent to me from Dave Statezni. c 1 \p \v 1 That which was from the beginning—which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—concerning the Word of life. \v 2 Also, the life was made known, and we have seen it and testify to it. We are proclaiming to you the eternal life, which was with the Father, and which has been made known to us. My concern about this translation, and many others but not all, is the use of ‘it’, bold and italics above. There is no pronoun here in the Greek, as there is in the Gospel of John where the pronoun does exist in the Greek and is translated ‘he’. It would sure seem to me that there should be a TN on this; why add the ‘it’ or if you must add something why not use ‘he’, since the Word is Jesus. Maybe the ULB should also be reviewed on this. Sorry for proposing this late-running kibitz, but it’s something my wife brought up to me in her reading this AM. “How can they call the Word ‘it’”?

SusanQuigley commented

2021-09-13 20:07:21 +00:00

Owner

Verse 2 uses the word "it" to refer to the life.
If "the life" is a title for Jesus, it would be odd to use the pronoun "it". But I see that some other versions also use "it" there.

NIV: The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

ESV: the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—

Holman Christian Standard Bible
that life was revealed, and we have seen it and we testify and declare to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us —

Do you think the ULB might be ok?

Verse 2 uses the word "it" to refer to the life. If "the life" is a title for Jesus, it would be odd to use the pronoun "it". But I see that some other versions also use "it" there. NIV: The life appeared; we have seen **it** and testify to **it**, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. ESV: the life was made manifest, and we have seen **it**, and testify to **it** and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— Holman Christian Standard Bible that life was revealed, and we have seen **it** and we testify and declare to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us — Do you think the ULB might be ok?

JohnH commented

2021-09-13 20:29:48 +00:00

Author

Owner

It is closer to the Greek to say "and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life."

It is not an urgent change, and there are other translations with similar wording as the current ULB. Maybe it is something we can consider for a future version of the ULB.

It is closer to the Greek to say "and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life." It is not an urgent change, and there are other translations with similar wording as the current ULB. Maybe it is something we can consider for a future version of the ULB.

SusanQuigley commented

2021-09-14 12:28:03 +00:00

Owner

That sounds good to me. While we're at it, could we delete the "Also" at the beginning of v2, so it would read like this?

\v 1 That which was from the beginning—which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—concerning the Word of life.
\v 2 The life was made known, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father, and which has been made known to us.

That sounds good to me. While we're at it, could we delete the "Also" at the beginning of v2, so it would read like this? \v 1 That which was from the beginning—which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—concerning the Word of life. \v 2 The life was made known, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father, and which has been made known to us.

JohnH commented

2021-09-14 13:07:09 +00:00

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Owner

I just noticed that verse 1 in the ULB is not really a complete sentence. It looks like other English versions that put a period at the end of verse 1 add something like "...this we proclaim concerning the Word of life" or "this is the Word of life." They have to do this to make the sentence complete.

The English versions that have a wording similar to the ULB use a dash at the end of verse 1.

Is this a grammar issue that should be fixed?

I just noticed that verse 1 in the ULB is not really a complete sentence. It looks like other English versions that put a period at the end of verse 1 add something like "...this we proclaim concerning the Word of life" or "this is the Word of life." They have to do this to make the sentence complete. The English versions that have a wording similar to the ULB use a dash at the end of verse 1. Is this a grammar issue that should be fixed?

SusanQuigley commented

2021-09-14 13:17:47 +00:00

Owner

Maybe we could have the em-dash at the end rather than those two in the middle?

\v 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched concerning the Word of life—
\v 2 the life was made known, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father, and which has been made known to us.

Translation Notes will need to be updated.

Maybe we could have the em-dash at the end rather than those two in the middle? \v 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched concerning the Word of life— \v 2 the life was made known, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father, and which has been made known to us. Translation Notes will need to be updated.

JohnH commented

2021-09-14 13:20:17 +00:00

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Owner

Yes, that looks better to me. Should we change it now or wait until a future version?

SusanQuigley commented

2021-09-14 13:44:12 +00:00

Owner

I'm not sure. Let's ask Aby.

JohnH commented

2021-09-15 20:52:35 +00:00

Author

Owner

Changed ULB to:

\v 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched, concerning the Word of life—
\v 2 the life was made known, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father, and which has been made known to us.

I deleted two notes and replaced with this:

we have seen and testify

“we have seen it and testify about it” or “we have seen him and testify about him”

Changed ULB to: \v 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched, concerning the Word of life— \v 2 the life was made known, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father, and which has been made known to us. I deleted two notes and replaced with this: **we have seen and testify** “we have seen it and testify about it” or “we have seen him and testify about him”

JohnH commented

2021-09-16 14:03:48 +00:00

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Owner

Is this ready to close?

SusanQuigley commented

2021-09-16 19:45:31 +00:00

Owner

I just saw this note in for v.

the Word of life
“Jesus, the one who causes people to live forever”

It refers to Jesus, but I'm not sure that is an appropriate translation. What would you think of something like this?

the Word of life
This refers to Jesus. Alternate translation: "the one who gives life" or "the one who causes people to live forever"

I just saw this note in for v. **the Word of life** “Jesus, the one who causes people to live forever” It refers to Jesus, but I'm not sure that is an appropriate translation. What would you think of something like this? **the Word of life** This refers to Jesus. Alternate translation: "the one who gives life" or "the one who causes people to live forever"

JohnH commented

2021-09-16 20:00:58 +00:00

Author

Owner

Yes, I think that is better.