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JOS 18:11 frag #858

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opened 2020-11-30 21:24:43 +00:00 by bobj · 10 comments
bobj commented 2020-11-30 21:24:43 +00:00
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\v 11 The assignment of land for the tribe of Benjamin clan by clan. The territory of their assigned land was located between the descendants of Judah and the descendants of Joseph.

Issue: The first sentence of v.11 is missing a verb. The original ASV of the first part of v.11 was as follows, other English versions having similar renderings:

"And the lot of the tribe of the children of Benjamin came up according to their families"

\v 11 The assignment of land for the tribe of Benjamin clan by clan. The territory of their assigned land was located between the descendants of Judah and the descendants of Joseph. Issue: The first sentence of v.11 is missing a verb. The original ASV of the first part of v.11 was as follows, other English versions having similar renderings: "And the lot of the tribe of the children of Benjamin came up according to their families"
JohnH commented 2020-12-01 17:37:01 +00:00
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The first sentence in the current ULB sounds like a header or summary statement. If we want to leave it as is, we could put a colon after "clan," but it is leaving out וַיַּ֗עַל (And came up).

I am fine with using the wording from the ASV that Bob stated in his post.

The first sentence in the current ULB sounds like a header or summary statement. If we want to leave it as is, we could put a colon after "clan," but it is leaving out וַיַּ֗עַל (And came up). I am fine with using the wording from the ASV that Bob stated in his post.
JohnH commented 2020-12-01 17:39:51 +00:00
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Maybe we should keep "clan by clan" instead of "according to their families." "Clan by clan" is in Joshua 25 times.

Maybe we should keep "clan by clan" instead of "according to their families." "Clan by clan" is in Joshua 25 times.
drewc commented 2020-12-01 18:59:11 +00:00
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I think Bob's suggestion is good but I suggest:

“And the lot of the tribe of the sons of Benjamin came up according to their clans”

I think Bob's suggestion is good but I suggest: “And the lot of the tribe of the sons of Benjamin came up according to their clans”
JohnH commented 2020-12-02 16:56:19 +00:00
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Should we change "clan by clan" to "according to their clans" throughout Joshua?

Should we change "clan by clan" to "according to their clans" throughout Joshua?
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Drew
Susan
 labels 2020-12-02 16:56:28 +00:00
drewc commented 2020-12-03 13:41:13 +00:00
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I would check to see if they are the same construction with the preposition לְ and change only those with this preposition.

I would check to see if they are the same construction with the preposition לְ and change only those with this preposition.
SusanQuigley commented 2020-12-03 14:23:15 +00:00
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I'm fine with it either way.

We have 5 tNs for "clan by clan" in Joshua.

We have "clan by clan" in the ULB 3 times outside of Joshua

We have "according to their clans" 7 times in the ULB, including Jos 19:23.

I'm fine with it either way. We have 5 tNs for "clan by clan" in Joshua. We have "clan by clan" in the ULB 3 times outside of Joshua We have "according to their clans" 7 times in the ULB, including Jos 19:23.
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 label 2020-12-03 14:23:50 +00:00
drewc commented 2020-12-03 16:50:08 +00:00
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I am good either way as well. Perhaps this means we keep it as is?

FYI there are 74 usages of this specific contruction לְמִשְׁפְּחֹתָ֑ם. I think this also supports the idea that we do not try to go through and make it consistent throughout.

I am good either way as well. Perhaps this means we keep it as is? FYI there are 74 usages of this specific contruction לְמִשְׁפְּחֹתָ֑ם. I think this also supports the idea that we do not try to go through and make it consistent throughout.
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drewc removed the
Drew
 label 2020-12-03 16:51:34 +00:00
SusanQuigley commented 2020-12-04 16:00:04 +00:00
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Current ULB:
\v 11 The assignment of land for the tribe of Benjamin clan by clan. The territory of their assigned land was located between the descendants of Judah and the descendants of Joseph.

Should we leave the first "sentence" as a title, or should we add a verb to make it a sentence?

If we want to change it to a sentence, how about a minimal change?

\v 11 The assignment of land for the tribe of Benjamin came up clan by clan. The territory of their assigned land was located between the descendants of Judah and the descendants of Joseph.

Or if we want it to match the wording in ch 20

The casting of lots fell to the tribe of Benjamin, clan by clan. The territory of their assigned land was located between the descendants of Judah and the descendants of Joseph.

"The territory of their assigned land"?? How about "Their assigned land" or "Their assigned territory"?

@drewcurley, what do you think?

Current ULB: \v 11 The assignment of land for the tribe of Benjamin clan by clan. The territory of their assigned land was located between the descendants of Judah and the descendants of Joseph. Should we leave the first "sentence" as a title, or should we add a verb to make it a sentence? If we want to change it to a sentence, how about a minimal change? \v 11 The assignment of land for the tribe of Benjamin **came up** clan by clan. The territory of their assigned land was located between the descendants of Judah and the descendants of Joseph. Or if we want it to match the wording in ch 20 **The casting of lots fell to the tribe of Benjamin,** clan by clan. The territory of their assigned land was located between the descendants of Judah and the descendants of Joseph. "The territory of their assigned land"?? How about "Their assigned land" or "Their assigned territory"? @drewcurley, what do you think?
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Drew
 label 2020-12-04 16:00:28 +00:00
drewc commented 2020-12-04 16:38:32 +00:00
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The assignment of land for the tribe of Benjamin came up clan by clan. The territory of their assigned land was located between the descendants of Judah and the descendants of Joseph.

This is my choice.

The assignment of land for the tribe of Benjamin came up clan by clan. The territory of their assigned land was located between the descendants of Judah and the descendants of Joseph. This is my choice.
SusanQuigley commented 2020-12-04 16:52:11 +00:00
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Great. Thanks.
I added "came up"

Checked tN.

Great. Thanks. I added "came up" Checked tN.
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