1Sa 25:31 a staggering stumbling block

SusanQuigley commented

2020-11-20 19:42:54 +00:00

Owner

From snipppet updates.

Current ULB
\v 31 This will not be a staggering stumbling block for you—that you have poured out innocent blood, or because my master attempted to rescue himself. For when Yahweh will do good for my master, remember your servant."

Current tNs

Connecting Statement:
Abigail finishes reasoning with David.

This will not be a staggering burden for you—that you have poured out innocent blood, or because my master attempted to rescue himself
Abigail is stating that if David chooses not to take revenge he will have a clear conscience when Yahweh makes him king of Israel. This can be stated in positive form. Alternate translation: “You will always be glad you acted as you did-that you have not poured out innocent blood, or because my master did not attempt to rescue himself” (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-litotes)

my master ... himself ... my master ... your servant
Abigail speaks of herself and David as if they are two other people, to show that she respects David. “you ... yourself ... you ... me” (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-pronouns)

when Yahweh will do good for my master
That is, when Yahweh actually makes him king after Saul’s reign is over.

I have updated the the snippet for the first note and added these two tNs:

This will not be a staggering stumbling block
A staggering stumbling block is a metaphor for a guilty conscience. (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-metaphor)

that you have poured out innocent blood
Pouring out blood is a metonym for killing people. Alternate translation: "that you have killed innocent people" or "that you have killed people needlessly" (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-metonymy)

But the ULB borders on being unintelligible and the notes still are not very helpful. I wonder if it would be good to tweek the ULB and notes.

\v 31 This will not be for you a staggering or a stumbling block for your heart—that you have poured out blood needlessly or that my master has attempted to avenge himself. For when Yahweh will do good for my master, remember your servant."

This will not be for you a staggering or a stumbling block for your heart—that you have poured out blood needlessly or that my master has attempted to avenge himself.
The word "This" refers to David's actions. Staggering is a metaphor for extreme sorrow or grief, and a stumbling block for the heart is a metaphor for guilty feelings. This implies that if David were to pour out blood needlessly or attempt to avenge himself, he would feel sorrow and grief. But since he will not do those things, he will not feel terrible sorrow and guilty feelings. Alternate translation: "Your action will not give you the sorrow or guilty feelings that pouring out blood needlessly or attemping to avenge yourself would give you."

That's a lot in one note, but I don't know how to split it up and show how the second part of the verse relates to the first.

What do you think? Leave as is, make very few changes, make a lot of changes?

From snipppet updates. Current ULB \v 31 This will not be **a staggering stumbling block** for you—that you have poured out innocent blood, or because my master attempted to rescue himself. For when Yahweh will do good for my master, remember your servant." Current tNs **Connecting Statement:** Abigail finishes reasoning with David. **This will not be a staggering burden for you—that you have poured out innocent blood, or because my master attempted to rescue himself** Abigail is stating that if David chooses not to take revenge he will have a clear conscience when Yahweh makes him king of Israel. This can be stated in positive form. Alternate translation: “You will always be glad you acted as you did-that you have not poured out innocent blood, or because my master did not attempt to rescue himself” (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-litotes) **my master ... himself ... my master ... your servant** Abigail speaks of herself and David as if they are two other people, to show that she respects David. “you ... yourself ... you ... me” (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-pronouns) **when Yahweh will do good for my master** That is, when Yahweh actually makes him king after Saul’s reign is over. -------- I have updated the the snippet for the first note and added these two tNs: **This will not be a staggering stumbling block** A staggering stumbling block is a metaphor for a guilty conscience. (See: [[rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-metaphor]]) **that you have poured out innocent blood** Pouring out blood is a metonym for killing people. Alternate translation: "that you have killed innocent people" or "that you have killed people needlessly" (See: [[rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-metonymy]]) -------- But the ULB borders on being unintelligible and the notes still are not very helpful. I wonder if it would be good to tweek the ULB and notes. \v 31 This will not be **for you a staggering or** a stumbling block **for your heart**—that you have **poured out blood needlessly** or **that** my master **has** attempted to **avenge** himself. For when Yahweh will do good for my master, remember your servant." **This will not be for you a staggering or a stumbling block for your heart—that you have poured out blood needlessly or that my master has attempted to avenge himself.** The word "This" refers to David's actions. Staggering is a metaphor for extreme sorrow or grief, and a stumbling block for the heart is a metaphor for guilty feelings. This implies that if David were to pour out blood needlessly or attempt to avenge himself, he would feel sorrow and grief. But since he will not do those things, he will not feel terrible sorrow and guilty feelings. Alternate translation: "Your action will not give you the sorrow or guilty feelings that pouring out blood needlessly or attemping to avenge yourself would give you." That's a lot in one note, but I don't know how to split it up and show how the second part of the verse relates to the first. What do you think? Leave as is, make very few changes, make a lot of changes?

JohnH commented

2020-11-23 19:23:10 +00:00

Owner

It looks like this is the only place לְפוּקָה֩ occurs.

What if we bypass the metaphor and give the meaning in the ULB. Most English versions do this. Even the NASB has "this will not cause grief or a troubled heart to my lord"

If we do this, it should make the note a little easier.

It looks like this is the only place לְפוּקָה֩ occurs. What if we bypass the metaphor and give the meaning in the ULB. Most English versions do this. Even the NASB has "this will not cause grief or a troubled heart to my lord" If we do this, it should make the note a little easier.

SusanQuigley commented

2020-11-23 20:12:03 +00:00

Author

Owner

I like that idea. I think with this kind of change,it would be good to have Drew weigh in on it, too.

SusanQuigley added the

Drew

label 2020-11-23 20:12:11 +00:00

drewc commented

2020-11-24 13:41:40 +00:00

Owner

I am good with that too

SusanQuigley commented

2020-11-24 14:28:52 +00:00

Author

Owner

Thank you, both of you!
That simplified the notes.

ULB
\v 31 This will not cause grief or a troubled heart to my master—that you have poured out innocent blood, or because my master attempted to rescue himself. For when Yahweh will do good for my master, remember your servant."

This will not cause grief or a troubled heart to my master—that you have poured out innocent blood, or because my master attempted to rescue himself
The word “This” refers to David’s actions. This implies that if David were to pour out blood needlessly or attempt to avenge himself, he would feel grief and have a troubled heart. But since he will not do those things, he will not feel grief and have a troubled heart. Alternate translation: “Your action will not cause you the grief or the troubled heart that pouring out blood needlessly or trying to avenge yourself would cause you.”

This will not cause grief or a troubled heart to my lord
A troubled heart is a metonym for feelings of guilt. Alternate translation: "Your action will not give you sorrow or guilty feelings" or "Your action will not cause you to regret what you did and to feel guilty" (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-metonymy)

that you have poured out innocent blood
Pouring out blood is a metonym for killing people. Alternate translation: "that you have killed innocent people" or "that you have killed people needlessly" (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-metonymy)

Thank you, both of you! That simplified the notes. ULB \v 31 **This will not cause grief or a troubled heart to my master**—that you have poured out innocent blood, or because my master attempted to rescue himself. For when Yahweh will do good for my master, remember your servant." ---- **This will not cause grief or a troubled heart to my master—that you have poured out innocent blood, or because my master attempted to rescue himself** The word “This” refers to David’s actions. This implies that if David were to pour out blood needlessly or attempt to avenge himself, he would feel grief and have a troubled heart. But since he will not do those things, he will not feel grief and have a troubled heart. Alternate translation: “Your action will not cause you the grief or the troubled heart that pouring out blood needlessly or trying to avenge yourself would cause you.” **This will not cause grief or a troubled heart to my lord** A troubled heart is a metonym for feelings of guilt. Alternate translation: "Your action will not give you sorrow or guilty feelings" or "Your action will not cause you to regret what you did and to feel guilty" (See: [[rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-metonymy]]) **that you have poured out innocent blood** Pouring out blood is a metonym for killing people. Alternate translation: "that you have killed innocent people" or "that you have killed people needlessly" (See: [[rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-metonymy]])

SusanQuigley closed this issue

2020-11-24 14:28:59 +00:00

1Sa 25:31 a staggering stumbling block #841