Matthew 14:13: κατ᾽ ἰδίαν not translated

hmw3 commented

2020-08-19 14:34:49 +00:00

Now when Jesus heard this, he withdrew from there in a boat to a deserted place.

Needs to include the idea of "privately" or "by himself."

Now when Jesus heard this, he withdrew from there in a boat by himself to a deserted place.

or

Now when Jesus heard this, he withdrew privately from there in a boat to a deserted place.

or maybe even

Now when Jesus heard this, he withdrew from there in a boat to a deserted place so he could be alone.

Now when Jesus heard this, he withdrew from there in a boat to a deserted place. Needs to include the idea of "privately" or "by himself." Now when Jesus heard this, he withdrew from there in a boat **by himself** to a deserted place. or Now when Jesus heard this, he withdrew **privately** from there in a boat to a deserted place. or maybe even Now when Jesus heard this, he withdrew from there in a boat to a deserted place *so he could be* **alone**.

SusanQuigley commented

2020-08-19 14:44:31 +00:00

Owner

It does not represent Matthew's emphasis on Jesus being alone, but it does not misrepresent the situation and it's not heretical. I think it's ok as is.

SusanQuigley added the

John

Tom

labels 2020-08-19 14:47:09 +00:00

JohnH commented

2020-08-21 19:08:32 +00:00

Owner

Interesting. The note seems to say the opposite of what Henry is suggesting.

he withdrew
"he left" or "he went away from the crowd." It is implied that Jesus's disciples went with him. Alternate translation: "Jesus and his disciples left" (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-explicit)

Did Jesus' disciples go with him?

If so, adding "by himself" may be confusing.

If not, we need to change the note. Also, if the note writer wrote the note based on what the ULB says, maybe we should add "by himself" to clarify the meaning.

Interesting. The note seems to say the opposite of what Henry is suggesting. **he withdrew** "he left" or "he went away from the crowd." It is implied that Jesus's disciples went with him. Alternate translation: "Jesus and his disciples left" (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-explicit) Did Jesus' disciples go with him? If so, adding "by himself" may be confusing. If not, we need to change the note. Also, if the note writer wrote the note based on what the ULB says, maybe we should add "by himself" to clarify the meaning.

JohnH added

Susan

and removed

John

labels 2020-08-21 19:08:38 +00:00

SusanQuigley commented

2020-08-21 19:39:44 +00:00

Owner

SIL Translator's Notes says this:
privately: The word privately may imply to some that Jesus went alone. But 14:15 implies that Jesus’ disciples went with him. The parallel passage in Luke 9:10 says explicitly that Jesus’ disciples went with him at this time.

Translator's Handbook says this:
Moreover, apart translates a construction which actually means "privately, by himself," thus raising a question concerning the whereabouts of Jesus' disciples at this time. Were they in the boat with Jesus during his journey to a lonely place, or did they show up later, either with the crowds or on their own? "The disciples came to him and said" of verse 15 provides no answer; this statement does not mean that the disciples had just at that moment arrived, but rather that "they came up to him."

I say this says this:
Since Jesus went by boat, he probably went with someone who owned a boat -- whether that was his fishermen disciples or someone else.

I wonder if it would be good to delete the note about the disciples going with him. That might be less of an implication and more of a good guess we make as we try to reconstruct the scene. It could be that Jesus really wanted to be alone and went without his disciples on someone else's boat, and that the disciples followed him with the crowd.

**SIL Translator's Notes says this:** **privately:** The word privately may imply to some that Jesus went alone. But 14:15 implies that Jesus’ disciples went with him. The parallel passage in Luke 9:10 says explicitly that Jesus’ disciples went with him at this time. **Translator's Handbook says this:** Moreover, **apart** translates a construction which actually means "privately, by himself," thus raising a question concerning the whereabouts of Jesus' disciples at this time. Were they in the boat with Jesus during his journey to a lonely place, or did they show up later, either with the crowds or on their own? "The disciples came to him and said" of verse 15 provides no answer; this statement does not mean that the disciples had just at that moment arrived, but rather that "they came up to him." **I say this says this:** Since Jesus went by boat, he probably went with someone who owned a boat -- whether that was his fishermen disciples or someone else. I wonder if it would be good to delete the note about the disciples going with him. That might be less of an implication and more of a good guess we make as we try to reconstruct the scene. It could be that Jesus really wanted to be alone and went without his disciples on someone else's boat, and that the disciples followed him with the crowd.

SusanQuigley commented

2020-08-21 19:48:42 +00:00

Owner

What I last wrote doesn't make sense in light of the parallel passage in Luke 9:10. We do know that Jesus' disciples were with him. It's just that Matthew didn't say anything about it. I don't think we know whether or not he was implying that they were with him. So I still think it might be good to get rid of the note.

JohnH commented

2020-08-21 21:00:06 +00:00

Owner

Agreed. I vote we change the note to this

he withdrew
"he left" or "he went away"

I suggest taking out "from the crowd" because it would not fit back into the text smoothly

Agreed. I vote we change the note to this he withdrew "he left" or "he went away" I suggest taking out "from the crowd" because it would not fit back into the text smoothly

SusanQuigley commented

2020-08-21 21:09:48 +00:00

Owner

I made the change to the translation note.

SusanQuigley closed this issue

2020-08-21 21:09:48 +00:00

Matthew 14:13: κατ᾽ ἰδίαν not translated #728