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Colossians 1:28: πάντα ἄνθρωπον #511

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opened 2020-07-29 14:19:43 +00:00 by hmw3 · 14 comments
hmw3 commented 2020-07-29 14:19:43 +00:00
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The phrase πάντα ἄνθρωπον appears three times, from which I infer that Paul is using repetition to pound a nail in. Also, I think translating the same phrase the same way every time would be more helpful.

Present:
We proclaim him, warning and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present every person mature in Christ.

Suggested:
We proclaim him, warning every person and teaching every person with all wisdom, so that we may present every person mature in Christ.

The phrase πάντα ἄνθρωπον appears three times, from which I infer that Paul is using repetition to pound a nail in. Also, I think translating the same phrase the same way every time would be more helpful. Present: We proclaim **him, warning and teaching everyone with all wisdom,** so that we may present every person mature in Christ. Suggested: We proclaim **him, warning every person and teaching every person with all wisdom,** so that we may present every person mature in Christ.
TomWarren commented 2020-07-29 19:48:27 +00:00
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Seems cricket but what about ...?
Noting the NIV11, and ESV and NRSV have: "everyone .... everyone .... everyone ...."
Noting the ASV and RV1885 have: "every man .... every man ... every man...."

Tom's suggestion is everyone for the ULB of COL 1:28 to be changed to read:

\v 28 We proclaim him, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone mature in Christ.

Other suggestions???

Seems cricket but what about ...? Noting the NIV11, and ESV and NRSV have: "everyone .... everyone .... everyone ...." Noting the ASV and RV1885 have: "every man .... every man ... every man...." Tom's suggestion is **everyone** for the ULB of COL 1:28 to be changed to read: \v 28 We proclaim him, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone mature in Christ. _______________________________ Other suggestions???
JohnH commented 2020-07-29 20:33:08 +00:00
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I like "everyone"

I like "everyone"
hmw3 commented 2020-07-30 12:39:35 +00:00
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As my ruby lips slip beneath the water blowing bubbles soft and fine, ...

If Paul had wanted a wieldy phrase, could he not have said simply πάντα? That he repeats a comparatively unwieldy phrase tells me he's taking a sledgehammer to the issue.

"Every man" would have worked pre PC, but "person" seems better now and for non-native English speakers.

As my ruby lips slip beneath the water blowing bubbles soft and fine, ... If Paul had wanted a wieldy phrase, could he not have said simply πάντα? That he repeats a comparatively unwieldy phrase tells me he's taking a sledgehammer to the issue. "Every man" would have worked pre PC, but "person" seems better now and for non-native English speakers.
JohnH commented 2020-07-30 14:06:46 +00:00
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I liked "everyone" better, since we are already substituting "every man" with "every person." I thought of "everyone" as the equivalent of "every person."

If repeating "every person" three times is more emphatic than repeating "everyone" three times, and that is closer to what Paul meant, I'm fine with "every person."

I liked "everyone" better, since we are already substituting "every man" with "every person." I thought of "everyone" as the equivalent of "every person." If repeating "every person" three times is more emphatic than repeating "everyone" three times, and that is closer to what Paul meant, I'm fine with "every person."
SusanQuigley commented 2020-07-31 18:18:06 +00:00
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I'm glad for the suggestion about using the same phrase three times.

@JohnH, I didn't understand your last post. Isn't πᾶς ἄνθρωπος the "every man" that the ULB translates as "every person"? We wouldn't translate πᾶς ἀνήρ as "every person," would we?

I'm glad for the suggestion about using the same phrase three times. @JohnH, I didn't understand your last post. Isn't πᾶς ἄνθρωπος the "every man" that the ULB translates as "every person"? We wouldn't translate πᾶς ἀνήρ as "every person," would we?
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JohnH commented 2020-07-31 18:48:50 +00:00
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@SusanQuigley Yes, "every person" would translate πᾶς ἄνθρωπος. In the old days, this would have been translated "every man."

My response was to Henry who felt we should use "every person" instead of "everyone," which Tom suggested and I agreed. I was saying that in my mind "everyone" was the equivalent of "every person," that is, the gender neutral wording as opposed to "every man."

I am fine with "every person."

@SusanQuigley Yes, "every person" would translate πᾶς ἄνθρωπος. In the old days, this would have been translated "every man." My response was to Henry who felt we should use "every person" instead of "everyone," which Tom suggested and I agreed. I was saying that in my mind "everyone" was the equivalent of "every person," that is, the gender neutral wording as opposed to "every man." I am fine with "every person."
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JohnH removed the
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SusanQuigley commented 2020-07-31 20:13:27 +00:00
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Thanks, @JohnH. I'm fine with it either way.

Tom, could you make the change?

Thanks, @JohnH. I'm fine with it either way. Tom, could you make the change?
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TomWarren commented 2020-08-04 19:33:27 +00:00
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The ULB of Col 1:28 is changed to read:

\v 28 We proclaim him, warning and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present every person mature in Christ.

There it is ...

Tom

The ULB of Col 1:28 is changed to read: \v 28 We proclaim him, warning and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present **every person** mature in Christ. There it is ... Tom
JohnH commented 2020-08-04 19:41:28 +00:00
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I thought we were adding more "every person"s

We proclaim him, warning every person and teaching every person with all wisdom, so that we may present every person mature in Christ.

I thought we were adding more "every person"s We proclaim him, warning **every person** and teaching **every person** with all wisdom, so that we may present **every person** mature in Christ.
JohnH reopened this issue 2020-08-04 19:41:28 +00:00
TomWarren commented 2020-08-04 19:59:17 +00:00
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Got it.

The ULB of Col 1:28 now reads:

\v 28 We proclaim him, warning and teaching every person with all wisdom, so that we may present every person mature in Christ.

There it is.

Committed and synced

Thanks.

Tom

Got it. The ULB of Col 1:28 now reads: \v 28 We proclaim him, warning and teaching every person with all wisdom, so that we may present every person mature in Christ. There it is. Committed and synced Thanks. Tom
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TomWarren commented 2020-08-04 20:00:57 +00:00
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There about equal number (in the 30s and 40s) of every one and every person in the ULB.

There are 76 "every man" ... like 1Co 11:3 ... παντὸς ἀνδρὸς every man ....

Just so ...

Tom

There about equal number (in the 30s and 40s) of every one and every person in the ULB. There are 76 "every man" ... like 1Co 11:3 ... παντὸς ἀνδρὸς every man .... Just so ... Tom
JohnH commented 2020-08-04 20:04:54 +00:00
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I thought we were using "every person" three times in this verse.

We proclaim him, warning [1] every person and teaching [2] every person with all wisdom, so that we may present [3] every person mature in Christ.

I may be wrong, but I thought that was what Henry was suggesting.

I thought we were using "every person" three times in this verse. We proclaim him, warning [1] **every person** and teaching [2] **every person** with all wisdom, so that we may present [3] **every person** mature in Christ. I may be wrong, but I thought that was what Henry was suggesting.
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TomWarren commented 2020-08-04 20:11:51 +00:00
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The ULB of Col 1:28 now reads:

Col 1:28 now reads:
\v 28 We proclaim him, warning every person and teaching every person with all wisdom, so that we may present every person mature in Christ.

Got it. I thought 2 was enough ....

Committed and synced

The ULB of Col 1:28 now reads: Col 1:28 now reads: \v 28 We proclaim him, warning every person and teaching every person with all wisdom, so that we may present every person mature in Christ. Got it. I thought 2 was enough .... Committed and synced
TomWarren commented 2020-08-04 20:14:26 +00:00
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Closing one last time

Closing one last time
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