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Deu 10:17 Psa 110:1 lord vs master #508
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Reference: WycliffeAssociates/en_ulb#508
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Deu 10:17 וַאֲדֹנֵ֖י הָאֲדֹנִ֑ים (H113 H136)
\v 17 For Yahweh your God, he is God of gods and Lord of masters, the Great God, the Mighty One and the Fearsome One, who favors no one and takes no bribes.
tNs:
God of gods
"the supreme God" or "the only true God"
Lord of masters
"the supreme Lord" or "the greatest Lord"
Suggestion: "Lord of masters" doesn't really work. Could it be "Lord of lords?"
Psa 110:1 לַֽאדֹנִ֗י (H113)
\v 1 The declaration of Yahweh to my master: "Sit at my right hand
\q until I make your enemies your footstool."
Mat 22:44
\v 44 'The Lord said to my Lord,
\q "Sit at my right hand,
\q until I make your enemies your footstool"'?
Act 2:34
\v 34 For David did not ascend to the heaven, but he says,
\q 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand
Suggestion: In Psa 110:1, could "my master" be "my lord" to fit with other versions and with how it is quoted in the ULB-NT?
I suggest we use "[Ll]ord" in these two passages.
We have a "lord" tW page that touches on the relationship between "lord," "master," and "sir." Clicking on these two instances of "master" in the PDF would take the user to the "lord" page. Since we're talking about deity here, I think "lord" would save a step.
As far as I can tell (or guess), the use of "lord" referring to deity in history is an extension of its use with human masters, so we might be best off restricting its use in the ULB to deity and restricting "master" (and, of course, "sir") to humans: "my lord" referring to a person seems archaic, old movie-ish.
@hmw3 Henry, I'm not sure if I understand your response. Is this what you are suggesting?
Deu 10:17 "Lord of lords"
Psa 110:1 "The declaration of Yahweh to my Lord"
or "The declaration of Yahweh to my lord"
@SusanQuigley yes, that is what I'm suggesting.
I think "The declaration of Yahweh to my Lord" fits with Jesus's words on the subject, but since our capitalization rules were unknown to the writers back then, maybe it would be safer to lowercase, "The declaration of Yahweh to my lord."
I agree with changing to "Lord of lords" and "The declaration of Yahweh to my Lord/lord."
Most all versions (except NIV) capitalize "lord" in Psa 110:1. I lean towards lowercase from a scholar's POV, because I think it is adding interpretation based on the NT, even though the OT writer may not consciously intended that meaning. (I don't know the history of interpretation of this verse prior to Jesus.) However, as a Christian, since it is Jesus' interpretation, I think it is ok to understand this verse as meaning "Lord."
I think there are valid arguments for either one, so I am fine with whichever we decide.
We could possibly add a note explaining why some capitalize and some don't. That may help a translator if capitalization has the same meaning in their language.
Yahweh has been preserved in the ULB as only those times where YHWH is in the Hebrew text.
The suggestion I gather from the conversation above is as follows:
The ULB of Deu 10:17 currently reads:
\v 17 For Yahweh your God, he is God of gods and Lord of masters, the Great God, the Mighty One and the Fearsome One, who favors no one and takes no bribes.
The Suggestion for change of ULB Deu 10:17 is:
\v 17 For Yahweh your God, he is God of gods and Lord of lords, the Great God, the Mighty One and the Fearsome One, who favors no one and takes no bribes.
The second recommendation from the ULB of PSA 110:1 currently reads:
\v 1 The declaration of Yahweh to my master: "Sit at my right hand
\q until I make your enemies your footstool."
The suggestion, as I understand it for the ULB, would be to change the ULB to read:
\v 1 The declaration of Yahweh to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand
\q until I make your enemies your footstool."
If there is agreement on these two, I would be glad to commit them.
Tom Warren
Thank you, All.
Col 4:1
Masters, give to slaves what is right and fair, knowing you also have a master in heaven.
This is (the?) one case where kyrios referring to deity should be (and is) rendered "master."
@TomWarren, I think we're all agreed. Could you change "masters" to "lords" in Deu 10:17 and 'my master" to my Lord" in Psa 110:1?
Deu 10:17
\v 17 For Yahweh your God, he is God of gods and Lord of lords, the Great God, the Mighty One and the Fearsome One, who favors no one and takes no bribes.
Psa 110:1
\v 1 The declaration of Yahweh to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand
\q until I make your enemies your footstool."
The ULB of Deu 10:17 now reads:
\v 17 For Yahweh your God, he is God of gods and Lord of lords, the Great God, the Mighty One and the Fearsome One, who favors no one and takes no bribes.
THe ULB of Psa 110:1 now reads:
\v 1 The declaration of Yahweh to my lord: "Sit at my right hand
\q until I make your enemies your footstool."
Committed and sync'ed
Tom Warren
What is the status of Col 4:1 ??
\v 1 Masters, give to slaves what is right and fair, knowing you also have a master in heaven.
The RSV has "a Master in heaven."
The ASV has "a Master in heaven."
The NIV has "a Master in heaven"
The ESV has "a Master in heaven"
The NLT07 has "a Master—in heaven."
The NET has "a master in heaven"
Suggest we follow most versions and change the ULB of Col 4:1 to read:
\v 1 Masters, give to slaves what is right and fair, knowing you also have a Master in heaven.
There may be some desire to identify the "master" as Christ the Lord, more to defend the deity (of Christ) as master, kurios.
The phrase: κύριον ἐν οὐρανῷ Lord in heaven, adds to the Capitalization of kurios.
The repetition of kurios in Col is seen here:
COL 1:10
COL 2:6
COL 3:13
COL 3:17
COL 3:18
COL 3:20
COL 3:22
COL 3:22
COL 3:23
COL 3:24
COL 3:24
COL 4:1 (human masters/lords)
COL 4:1
COL 4:7
COL 4:17
I need another concurrence to apply this.
Tom
Thanks for changing Deu 10:17 and Psal 110:1.
For Col 4:1, I agree with changing "master in heaven" to "Master in heaven."
I think that in the rest of Col, Lord should remain as Lord.
Ok. Will apply the Col 4:1 to read:
\v 1 Masters, give to slaves what is right and fair, knowing you also have a Master in heaven.
Thanks,
Tom