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Isaiah 57:11; 58:7 Rhetorical Question(s) #497
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Reference: WycliffeAssociates/en_ulb#497
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Isaiah 57:11 "... Because I was silent for so long, you are no longer afraid of me.
This is an RQ in Hebrew, and I see no reason that it should not be in the ULB.
Isaiah 57:11 RQto Isaiah 57:11; 58:7 RQAlso, 58:7 is one long RQ comprising many clauses (contra NET, LEB[!], and NLT).
Isa 57:11 Current ULB
\v 11 "Whom are you worried about? Whom do you fear so much that has caused you to act so deceitfully,
\q1 so much that you would not remember me or think about me?
\q1 Because I was silent for so long, you are no longer afraid of me.
I wonder if the the reason for using a statement in the final line is that the Hebrew rhetorical question is so complex.
... Is it not because I was silent for so long that you are no longer afraid of me?
If we need to change it, perhaps something like one of these could make it a little easier:
... Is it because I was silent for so long that you are no longer afraid of me?
... I was silent for so long. Is that why you are no longer afraid of me?
Isaiah 58:7 Current ULB
\v 7 Is it not to break your bread with the hungry and to bring the poor and homeless into your house?"
\q1 When you see someone naked, you should clothe him; and you should not hide yourself from your own relatives.
(I don't know why there is a quote mark at the end of the first line.)
The Bible Hub interlinear has two question marks in v 7.
If we need to fix the rhetorical questions, here are some ideas:
\v 7 Is it not to break your bread with the hungry and to bring the poor and homeless into your house?"
\q1 Is it not that when you see someone naked, you should clothe him, and that you should not hide yourself from your own relatives?
\v 7 Is it not to break your bread with the hungry, to bring the poor and homeless into your house,
\q1 to clothe the naked when you see him/them, and not to hide yourself from your own relatives?
57:11 definitely has some spaghetti to untangle.
There are two interrogative pronouns, "who" and another that precedes "I was silent." ESV, NIV, NASB, NET, KJV all connect everything between the markers into one thought. They're divided as to whether the last clause is an RQ, but most say it is.
We could conceivably be doing the users a favor by separating the grounds for the RQs from the RQs themselves, maybe by dividing the RQs:
\v 11 "Whom are you worried about? Whom do you fear so much? What has caused you to act so deceitfully?
\q1 What has caused you to not remember me or think about me?
\q1 I was silent for so long. Is that why you are no longer afraid of me?
I like SQ's second rendition of 58:7.
I like Henry's suggestion for 57:11. I think the shorter rhetorical questions are easier to follow.
I am not sure about making "I was silent for so long" a statement. Is this God admitting he has been silent for a long time? I'm not sure that is the point here. If we break up the last RQ, could we make both into questions?
Was I silent for so long? Is that why you are no longer afraid of me?
Or we could combine them as Susan suggested: Is it because I was silent for so long that you are no longer afraid of me?
For 58:7, I like Susan's first suggestion, because I think it is easier to follow the rhetorical questions when they are broken up. However, I think the verse flows better in her second suggestion. I fine with it either way.
Isaiah 57:11: God seems to be admitting that he has been silent and is asking if (i.e., denying that) that's any good reason for them to stop fearing him.
ESV ... Have I not held my peace, even for a long time, and you do not fear me?
NIV “...Is it not because I have long been silent that you do not fear me?
NIV84 “... Is it not because I have long been silent that you do not fear me?
NASB95 “...Was I not silent even for a long time So you do not fear Me?
NRSV ...Have I not kept silent and closed my eyes, and so you do not fear me?
NET ...Because I have been silent for so long, you are not afraid of me.
NLT “... Is it because of my long silence that you no longer fear me?
LEB ... Have I not been silent, even from long ago, and so you do not fear me?
KJV 1900 ... Have not I held my peace even of old, And thou fearest me not?
Isaiah 57:11; 58:7 RQto Isaiah 57:11; 58:7 Rhetorical Question(s)Henry, you may be right.
I think I like "Is it because I was silent for so long that you are no longer afraid of me?" To my brain, that seems to leave it open to interpretation.
Isaiah 57:11
Henry's suggestion with more short questions is easier to process, but it does not imply that their worry and fear are what led to their deceit and not remembering God. Instead it sounds like God is asking about different issues.
What would you think of this?
\v 11 "Whom are you worried about? Whom do you fear?
\q1 Your fear has caused you to act deceitfully,
\q1 so that you do not remember me or think about me.
\q1 Is it because I was silent for so long that you are no longer afraid of me?"
Or
\v 11 "Whom are you worried about? Whom do you fear?
\q1 Is that the reason that you have act deceitfully,
\q1 so that you do not remember me or think about me?
\q1 Is it because I was silent for so long that you are no longer afraid of me?"
\q1 Is that the reason that you have act deceitfully,
should be
\q1 Is that the reason that you have acted deceitfully,
SQ's second suggestion may be the best we can do with short questions.
I'm fine with Susan's second suggestion as well.
@hmw, thanks for finding that typo. I was bouncing back and forth in my mind between present and present perfect.
Current ULB:
\v 11 "Whom are you worried about? Whom do you fear so much that has caused you to act so deceitfully,
\q1 so much that you would not remember me or think about me?
\q1 Because I was silent for so long, you are no longer afraid of me.
@TomWarren, what do you think of this?
Isaiah 57:ll
\v 11 "Whom are you worried about? Whom do you fear?
\q1 Is that the reason that you have acted deceitfully,
\q1 so that you do not remember me or think about me?
\q1 Is it because I was silent for so long that you are no longer afraid of me?"
That is fine: The ULB of Isa 57:11 currently reads:
\v 11 "Whom are you worried about? Whom do you fear so much that has caused you to act so deceitfully,
\q1 so much that you would not remember me or think about me?
\q1 Because I was silent for so long, you are no longer afraid of me.
To be changed to:
\v 11 "Whom are you worried about? Whom do you fear?
\q1 Is that the reason that you have acted deceitfully,
\q1 so that you do not remember me or think about me?
\q1 Is it because I was silent for so long that you are no longer afraid of me?"
Pulled ... committed ... synced.
There it is ... I will close it.
Oops. We didn't finish Isa 58:7.
Current ULB:
\v 7 Is it not to break your bread with the hungry and to bring the poor and homeless into your house?"
\q1 When you see someone naked, you should clothe him; and you should not hide yourself from your own relatives.
@TomWarren Could you change it to one of these?
\v 7 Is it not to break your bread with the hungry and to bring the poor and homeless into your house?"
\q1 Is it not that when you see someone naked, you should clothe him, and that you should not hide yourself from your own relatives**?**
\v 7 Is it not to break your bread with the hungry**, to** bring the poor and homeless into your house,
\q1 to clothe the naked when you see them, and not to hide yourself from your own relatives**?**
What do you think? Finish making the changes to v7 that we started, or leave it as is?
I think we should make the change. All other translation either have two statements or two rhetorical questions. I don't see anyone who mixes them as the ULB does. I vote for Susan's second option above.
Tom already made the changes to 57:11.
I just made the changes to 58:7.
Quote mark issue. There was a close quote in the middle of v7. I put it at the end of v7. But I don't know why it was there at all. It looks like it shouldn't come until the end of the chapter. But there are double quote marks in v9, 12, and 14. I wonder if some of those should be deleted and some turned to single quotes.
Suggestion:
v 9 Change to single quotes marks.
v12 Change to single quotes marks.
v 14 Remove double quote at the beginning,
This matches the NIV and ESV except that they put double quote marks at the beginning of each stanza and they don't use quote marks in v12.
Sounds good.
Fixed quote marks and checked tNs.