See in Reader
Ezekiel 28:23 Tense problem #464
Labels
No Label
After June_2023 merge
Audio Waiting
Drew
Henry
Info - different
Info - missing
Info added
John
Needs TN
No Audio Yet
Not Urgent
Rendering
Susan
Tom
unreadable
No Milestone
No Assignees
5 Participants
Notifications
Due Date
No due date set.
Dependencies
No dependencies set.
Reference: WycliffeAssociates/en_ulb#464
Loading…
Reference in New Issue
No description provided.
Delete Branch "%!s(<nil>)"
Deleting a branch is permanent. Although the deleted branch may continue to exist for a short time before it actually gets removed, it CANNOT be undone in most cases. Continue?
\v 23 I will send out a plague in you and blood in your streets, and those who were killed will fall in the midst of you. When the sword comes against you from all around, then you will know that I am Yahweh.
Could the bolded phrase be changed to one of these?
I'd go with
those who are killed will fall ...
French would demand future tense there, but English (like Spanish) is most commonly present tense in such contexts.
I like that better. It's certainly better English. I just wasn't sure if the users would have difficulty with that.
So it looks like this would be good:
\v 23 I will send out a plague in you and blood in your streets, and those who are killed will fall in the midst of you. When the sword comes against you from all around, then you will know that I am Yahweh.
The Hebrew has the noun חָלָל֙.
Would it be better to say "and the wounded" like some other translations?
If not, I agree with "those who are killed will fall"
The sense seems to be "fatally wounded" (Ezk 26:15 seems to combine the idea of wounding with fatality), so it could be either "wounded" or "killed," but of course now that I've come up with "fatally wounded," that's my choice :-D . But I won't be חָלָל if I don't get my way.
Ezk 28:23
I'm ok with "those who are killed," "those who are wounded, or "the wounded".
But I like "those who are fatally wounded" best.
The feminine goes back to (feminine form) Sidon at Ezk 28:22 so that makes more sense in interpreting ...
vs 23 ... they will fall in the midst of her (Sidon and it could be made explicit)
vs 23 ... they will fall in the midst of Sidon.
Ezk 26:2 speaks of Tyre (... "she had turned to me..." vs 5, She will ... vs 6 her daughters. ..
in your midst (in the midst of Feminine, Tyre).
@TomWarren, for Ezk 28:22 and 23, are you saying that some of the second person pronouns referring to Sidon should be changed to third person pronouns?
In 28:23 could you change "those who were killed" to "those who are killed" or "those who are fatally wounded"?
I'm good with "those who are fatally wounded."
I see some English versions with second person pronoun and some with third feminine. I'm fine with leaving pronouns as is.
I personally do not like the change to the second person. The text uses feminine pronouns. If you want to explain it in the notes, that is how I would do it, not in the text itself.
I had to change the pronouns in the surrounding verses. I also made a separate sentence in verse 22 so that the pronouns would not change mid-sentence. In verse 24 we had "from all those around her who despise her." I changed to "them" and "they" to match the Hebrew.
\v 22 Say, 'The Lord Yahweh says this: Behold! I am against you, Sidon! For I will be glorified in your midst. Then they will know that I am Yahweh when I execute judgments within her. I will be shown to be holy in her.
\v 23 I will send out a plague in her and blood in her streets, and those who were killed will fall in the midst of her. When the sword comes against her from all around, then they will know that I am Yahweh.
\v 24 Then there will no longer be pricking briars and painful thorns for the house of Israel from all those around them who despise them, so they will know that I am the Lord Yahweh!'
I also updated the notes. Since I made more changes than discussed above, I will leave this open. Once someone reviews and approves it, you can close it.
I'm fine with the changes John made. What do you think about the initial issue? Changing the tense of "those who were killed".
\v 23 I will send out a plague in her and blood in her streets, and those who are killed will fall in the midst of her. When the sword comes against her from all around, then they will know that I am Yahweh.
or, better yet,
\v 23 I will send out a plague in her and blood in her streets, and those who are fatally wounded will fall in the midst of her. When the sword comes against her from all around, then they will know that I am Yahweh.
Oops. I got caught up working on the pronouns and forgot to change that.
I am good with "are fatally wounded"
Now reads:
\v 23 I will send out a plague in her and blood in her streets, and those who are fatally wounded will fall in the midst of her. When the sword comes against her from all around, then they will know that I am Yahweh.
No further changes needed in the notes.
Thank you! :)