Last Review Supplying Jesus when not necessary ... Mat 12:3; 12:9; 12:11; 12:13 ; 12:25; 12:39; 12:46; 12:48; 13:3; 13:11; 13:24; 13:31; 13:33; 13:37; 13:52; 15:12; 15:13; 15:16; 15:23; 15:24; 15:35; 16:23; 17:20; 18:2;19:4; 21:10; 21:17; 21:23; 22:21; #463

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opened 2020-07-22 20:27:58 +00:00 by TomWarren · 5 comments

TomWarren commented

2020-07-22 20:27:58 +00:00

Through chapter 12 and 15 supplying "Jesus" unnecessarily:
Chapters 16-26 follow below ...

ULB Mat 12:3
\v 3 But Jesus said to them, "Have you never read what David did when he was hungry, and the men who were with him?
Should be changed to read: ... he said to them ...

ULB MAT 12:9
\v 9 Then Jesus left from there and went into their synagogue.
Should be changed to read: ... he left ...

ULB Mat 12:11
\v 11 Jesus said to them, "What man would there be among you, who, if he had just one sheep, and if this sheep fell into a pit on the Sabbath, would not take hold of it and raise it out?
Should be changed to read: ... He said ...

ULB Mat 12:13
\v 13 Then Jesus said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and it was restored to health, just like the other hand.
Should be changed to read: ... he said ...

ULB Mat 12:25
\v 25 But Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is made desolate, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.
Should be changed to read: ... Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, Every...

ULB Mat 12:39
\v 39 But Jesus answered and said to them, "An** evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign. But no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet.
Suggested change would be: ... But he ...

ULB Mat 12:46
\v 46 While Jesus was still speaking to the crowds, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, seeking to speak to him.
Suggested change would read: ... While he ...

ULB Mat 12:48
\v 48 But Jesus answered and said to him who told him, "Who is my mother and who are my brothers?"
Suggest change would be:
... He answered and said ...

13:3 ----
\v 3 Then Jesus said many things to them in parables. He said, "Behold, a farmer went out to sow seed.
Should be changed to read:
\v 3 Then he told them many things in parables. He said, "Behold, a farmer went out to sow seed.

ULB Mat 13:11
\v 11 Jesus answered and said to them, "You have been given the privilege of
understanding mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Suggest changed to the verse at Mat 13:11
\v 11 He answered and said to them, "You have been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

ULB 13:24
\v 24 Jesus presented another parable to them. He said, "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.

Suggested change:
\v 24 He told them another parable, saying, "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.

ULB Mat 13:31
\v 31 Then Jesus presented another parable to them. He said, "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed which a man took and sowed in his field.

Suggested change:
\v 31 Then he told them another parable, saying, "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed which a man took and sowed in his field.

ULB Mat 13:33
\v 33 Jesus then told them another parable. "The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed with three measures of flour until all the dough had risen."

Suggested change:
\v 33 He told them another parable, saying, "The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed with three measures of flour until all the dough had risen."

ULB Mat 13:37
\v 37 Jesus answered and said, "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.

Suggested change to:
\v 37 He answered and said to them, "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.

ULB of Mat 13:52
\v 52 Then Jesus said to them, "Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple to the kingdom of heaven is like a man who is the owner of a house, who draws out old and new things from his treasure."

Suggested change:
\v 52 He said to them, "Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple to the kingdom of heaven is like a man who is the owner of a house, who draws out old and new things from his treasure."

ULB Mat 15:12
Currently reads:
\v 12 Then the disciples came and said to Jesus, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?"

Suggested change:
\v 12 Then the disciples came and said to him, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?"

ULB Mat 15:13
Currently reads:
\v 13 Jesus answered and said, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up.

Suggested change to (following the source text, unnecessary identification of Jesus):
\v 13 He answered and said, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up.

ULB Mat 15:16
Currently reads:
\v 16 Jesus said, "Are you also still without understanding?

Suggest change to:
\v 16 He said, "Are you also still without understanding?

ULB 15:23 reads:
\v 23 **But Jesus answered her not a word. His disciples came and begged him, saying, "Send her away, for she is shouting after us."

Suggest change to:
\v 23 But he did not answer her a word. So his disciples came and begged him, saying, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."

ULB 15:24 reads:
\v 24 But Jesus answered and said, "I was not sent to anyone except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Suggest change to:
\v 24 But he answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

ULB Mat 15:35 reads:
\v 35 Then Jesus commanded the crowd to sit down on the ground.

Suggest change to:
\v 35 Then he directed the crowd to sit down on the ground.

**Through chapter 12 and 15 supplying "Jesus" unnecessarily**: Chapters 16-26 follow below ... ULB Mat 12:3 \v 3 But **Jesus said to them**, "Have you never read what David did when he was hungry, and the men who were with him? Should be changed to read: ... **he said to them** ... ULB MAT 12:9 \v 9 Then **Jesus left** from there and went into their synagogue. Should be changed to read: ... **he left** ... ULB Mat 12:11 \v 11 **Jesus said** to them, "What man would there be among you, who, if he had just one sheep, and if this sheep fell into a pit on the Sabbath, would not take hold of it and raise it out? Should be changed to read: ... **He said** ... ULB Mat 12:13 \v 13 Then **Jesus said** to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and it was restored to health, just like the other hand. Should be changed to read: ... **he said** ... ULB Mat 12:25 \v 25 **But Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every** kingdom divided against itself is made desolate, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. Should be changed to read: ... **Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, Every...** ULB Mat 12:39 \v 39 **But Jesus** answered and said to them, "An** evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign. But no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet. Suggested change would be: ... **But he** ... ULB Mat 12:46 \v 46 **While Jesus** was still speaking to the crowds, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, seeking to speak to him. Suggested change would read: ... **While he** ... ULB Mat 12:48 \v 48 **But Jesus answered and said** to him who told him, "Who is my mother and who are my brothers?" Suggest change would be: ... **He answered and said** ... ________________________ 13:3 ---- \v 3 **Then Jesus said many things to them** in parables. He said, "Behold, a farmer went out to sow seed. Should be changed to read: \v 3 **Then he told them many things** in parables. He said, "Behold, a farmer went out to sow seed. ULB Mat 13:11 \v 11 **Jesus** answered and said to them, "You have been given the privilege of understanding mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. Suggest changed to the verse at Mat 13:11 \v 11 **He** answered and said to them, "You have been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. ULB 13:24 \v 24 **Jesus presented another parable to them. He said, "The kingdom of heaven** is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. Suggested change: \v 24 **He told them another parable, saying, "The kingdom of heaven** is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. ULB Mat 13:31 \v 31 **Then Jesus presented another parable to them. He said,** "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed which a man took and sowed in his field. Suggested change: \v 31 **Then he told them another parable, saying,** "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed which a man took and sowed in his field. ULB Mat 13:33 \v 33 **Jesus then told them another parable.** "The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed with three measures of flour until all the dough had risen." Suggested change: \v 33 **He told them another parable, saying,** "The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed with three measures of flour until all the dough had risen." ULB Mat 13:37 \v 37 **Jesus** answered and said, "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. Suggested change to: \v 37 **He** answered and said to them, "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. ULB of Mat 13:52 \v 52 **Then Jesus** said to them, "Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple to the kingdom of heaven is like a man who is the owner of a house, who draws out old and new things from his treasure." Suggested change: \v 52 **He said** to them, "Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple to the kingdom of heaven is like a man who is the owner of a house, who draws out old and new things from his treasure." ______________________ ULB Mat 15:12 Currently reads: \v 12 Then the disciples came and said **to Jesus**, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?" Suggested change: \v 12 Then the disciples came **and said to him**, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?" ULB Mat 15:13 Currently reads: \v 13 **Jesus** answered and said, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. Suggested change to (following the source text, unnecessary identification of Jesus): \v 13 **He** answered and said, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. ULB Mat 15:16 Currently reads: \v 16 **Jesus** said, "Are you also still without understanding? Suggest change to: \v 16 **He** said, "Are you also still without understanding? ULB 15:23 reads: \v 23 **But Jesus answered her not a word. His disciples came and begged him, saying, "Send her away, **for she is shouting after us**." Suggest change to: \v 23 **But he did not answer her a word.** So his disciples came and begged him, saying, "Send her away, **for she keeps crying out after us**." ULB 15:24 reads: \v 24 But **Jesus** answered and said, "I was not sent to anyone except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Suggest change to: \v 24 But **he** answered and said, "I was sent **only to the lost sheep** of the house of Israel." ULB Mat 15:35 reads: \v 35 Then **Jesus commanded** the crowd to sit down on the ground. Suggest change to: \v 35 Then **he directed** the crowd to sit down on the ground.

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TomWarren changed title from ~~Last Review Mat 12:3; 12:9; 12:11; 12:13 ; 12:25; 12:39; 12:46; 12:48; 13:3; 13:11; 13:24; 13:31; 13:33;~~ to Last Review Mat 12:3; 12:9; 12:11; 12:13 ; 12:25; 12:39; 12:46; 12:48; 13:3; 13:11; 13:24; 13:31; 13:33; 13:37; 13:52; 15:12

2020-07-23 12:09:41 +00:00

TomWarren changed title from ~~Last Review Mat 12:3; 12:9; 12:11; 12:13 ; 12:25; 12:39; 12:46; 12:48; 13:3; 13:11; 13:24; 13:31; 13:33; 13:37; 13:52; 15:12~~ to Last Review Mat 12:3; 12:9; 12:11; 12:13 ; 12:25; 12:39; 12:46; 12:48; 13:3; 13:11; 13:24; 13:31; 13:33; 13:37; 13:52; 15:12; 15:13; 15:16; 15:23; 15:24; 15:35;

2020-07-23 12:32:11 +00:00

TomWarren changed title from ~~Last Review Mat 12:3; 12:9; 12:11; 12:13 ; 12:25; 12:39; 12:46; 12:48; 13:3; 13:11; 13:24; 13:31; 13:33; 13:37; 13:52; 15:12; 15:13; 15:16; 15:23; 15:24; 15:35;~~ to Last Review Mat 12:3; 12:9; 12:11; 12:13 ; 12:25; 12:39; 12:46; 12:48; 13:3; 13:11; 13:24; 13:31; 13:33; 13:37; 13:52; 15:12; 15:13; 15:16; 15:23; 15:24; 15:35; 16:23; 17:20; 18:2;19:4; 21:10; 21:17; 21:23; 22:21; 23:43; 26:45;

2020-07-23 13:11:33 +00:00

TomWarren commented

2020-07-23 13:11:55 +00:00

Author

Continue from Mat 16 replacing unnecessary supplement of Jesus when not needed.

The ULB of Mat 16:23 reads:
\v 23 But Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, for you do not think about the things of God, but about the things of people."

Suggest change to:
\v 23 But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, for you do not think about the things of God, but about the things of people."

The ULB of Mat 17:20 reads:
\v 20 Jesus said to them, "Because of your small faith. For I truly say to you, if you have faith even as small as a grain of mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you."

Suggested change to:
\v 20 He said to them, "Because of your small faith. For I truly say to you, if you have faith even as small as a grain of mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you."

The ULB of Mat 18:2 reads:
\v 2 Jesus called to himself a little child, set him among them,

Suggested change to:
\v 2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them,

The ULB of Mat 19:4 reads:
\v 4 Jesus answered and said, "Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female?

Suggest change to:
\v 4 He answered and said, "Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female?

Noting the Passion narratives have far less supplied "Jesus" in the text, it is supplied by the writer of the gospel.

ULB Mat 21:10 reads:
\v 10 When Jesus had come into Jerusalem, all the city was stirred and said, "Who is this?"

Suggest change to:
\v 10 When hehad come into Jerusalem, all the city was stirred and said, "Who is this?"
Noting Mat 21:11 names Jesus in the text.

ULB Mat 21:17 reads:
\v 17 Then Jesus left them and went out of the city to Bethany and spent the night there.

Suggesting change to:
\v 17 Then he left them and went out of the city to Bethany and spent the night there.

ULB Mat 21:23 reads:
\v 23 When Jesus had come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him as he was teaching and said, "By what authority do you do these things, and who gave you this authority?"

Suggested change to:
\v 23 When he came into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him as he was teaching and said, "By what authority do you do these things, and who gave you this authority?"

Note on Mat 21:23--aorist verb, participle, not a perfect as in the ULB. Note προσέρχομαι also is aorist (ULB translates as aorist).

The ULB of Mat 22:21 reads:
\v 21 They said to him, "Caesar's."
\p Then Jesus said to them, "Then give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

Suggested change to:
\v 21 They said to him, "Caesar's."
\p Then he said to them, "Then give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

The ULB of Mat 22:37 reads:
\v 37 Jesus said to him, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'

Suggest change to:
\v 37 He said to him, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'

The ULB Mat 22:43 reads:
\v 43 Jesus said to them, "How then does David in the Spirit call him Lord, saying,

Suggest change to:
\v 43 He said to them, "How then does David in the Spirit call him Lord, saying,

The ULB of Mat 26:45 reads:
\v 45 Then Jesus came to the disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and taking your rest? Look, the hour is at hand, and the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Suggested change to:
\v 45 Then he came to the disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and taking your rest? Look, the hour is at hand, and the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Continue from Mat 16 replacing unnecessary supplement of Jesus when not needed. The ULB of Mat 16:23 reads: \v 23 But **Jesus** turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, for you do not think about the things of God, but about the things of people." Suggest change to: \v 23 But **he** turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, for you do not think about the things of God, but about the things of people." The ULB of Mat 17:20 reads: \v 20 **Jesus** said to them, "Because of your small faith. For I truly say to you, if you have faith even as small as a grain of mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you." Suggested change to: \v 20 **He** said to them, "Because of your small faith. For I truly say to you, if you have faith even as small as a grain of mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you." The ULB of Mat 18:2 reads: \v 2 **Jesus called to himself a little child, set him among them,** Suggested change to: \v 2 **And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them,** ______________________ The ULB of Mat 19:4 reads: \v 4 **Jesus** answered and said, "Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female? Suggest change to: \v 4 **He** answered and said, "Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female? Noting the Passion narratives have far less supplied "Jesus" in the text, it is supplied by the writer of the gospel. ULB Mat 21:10 reads: \v 10 When **Jesus** had come into Jerusalem, all the city was stirred and said, "Who is this?" Suggest change to: \v 10 When **he**had come into Jerusalem, all the city was stirred and said, "Who is this?" Noting Mat 21:11 names Jesus in the text. ULB Mat 21:17 reads: \v 17 Then **Jesus** left them and went out of the city to Bethany and spent the night there. Suggesting change to: \v 17 Then **he** left them and went out of the city to Bethany and spent the night there. ULB Mat 21:23 reads: \v 23 When **Jesus had come** into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him as he was teaching and said, "By what authority do you do these things, and who gave you this authority?" Suggested change to: \v 23 When **he came** into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him as he was teaching and said, "By what authority do you do these things, and who gave you this authority?" Note on Mat 21:23--aorist verb, participle, not a perfect as in the ULB. Note προσέρχομαι also is aorist (ULB translates as aorist). The ULB of Mat 22:21 reads: \v 21 They said to him, "Caesar's." \p Then **Jesus** said to them, "Then give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." Suggested change to: \v 21 They said to him, "Caesar's." \p Then **he** said to them, "Then give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." The ULB of Mat 22:37 reads: \v 37 **Jesus** said to him, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' Suggest change to: \v 37 **He** said to him, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' The ULB Mat 22:43 reads: \v 43 **Jesus** said to them, "How then does David in the Spirit call him Lord, saying, Suggest change to: \v 43 **He** said to them, "How then does David in the Spirit call him Lord, saying, The ULB of Mat 26:45 reads: \v 45 Then **Jesus** came to the disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and taking your rest? Look, the hour is at hand, and the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners. Suggested change to: \v 45 Then **he** came to the disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and taking your rest? Look, the hour is at hand, and the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners.

TomWarren changed title from Last Review Mat 12:3; 12:9; 12:11; 12:13 ; 12:25; 12:39; 12:46; 12:48; 13:3; 13:11; 13:24; 13:31; 13:33; 13:37; 13:52; 15:12; 15:13; 15:16; 15:23; 15:24; 15:35; 16:23; 17:20; 18:2;19:4; 21:10; 21:17; 21:23; 22:21; 23:43; 26:45; to Last Review Supplying Jesus when not necessary ... Mat 12:3; 12:9; 12:11; 12:13 ; 12:25; 12:39; 12:46; 12:48; 13:3; 13:11; 13:24; 13:31; 13:33; 13:37; 13:52; 15:12; 15:13; 15:16; 15:23; 15:24; 15:35; 16:23; 17:20; 18:2;19:4; 21:10; 21:17; 21:23; 22:21;

2020-07-29 17:18:09 +00:00

SusanQuigley commented

2020-09-09 18:26:05 +00:00

Owner

I don't think we need to change "Jesus" to "he."

The following have other issues.

ULB 15:23 reads:
\v 23 But Jesus answered her not a word. His disciples came and begged him, saying, "Send her away, for she is shouting after us."

Suggest change to:
\v 23 But he did not answer her a word. So his disciples came and begged him, saying, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."

1st suggestion: We have a tN for "answered her not a word".
2nd suggestion: Some versions do not have "keeps" and some versions have "shouting".
I think the ULB is ok as is.

ULB 15:24 reads:
\v 24 But Jesus answered and said, "I was not sent to anyone except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Suggest change to:
\v 24 But he answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Some other versions have "I was not sent except." I think the ULB is ok as is.

The ULB of Mat 18:2 reads:
\v 2 Jesus called to himself a little child, set him among them,

Suggested change to:
\v 2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them,

I think the ULB is ok as is.

ULB Mat 21:23 reads:
\v 23 When Jesus had come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him as he was teaching and said, "By what authority do you do these things, and who gave you this authority?"

Suggested change to:
\v 23 When he came into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him as he was teaching and said, "By what authority do you do these things, and who gave you this authority?"

Note on Mat 21:23--aorist verb, participle, not a perfect as in the ULB. Note προσέρχομαι also is aorist (ULB translates as aorist).

The perfect doesn't distort the image and some other versions have it.
I think the ULB is ok as is.

I don't think we need to change "Jesus" to "he." ----------- The following have other issues. ULB 15:23 reads: \v 23 **But Jesus answered her not a word**. His disciples came and begged him, saying, "Send her away, for **she is shouting after us."** Suggest change to: \v 23 **But he did not answer her a word**. So his disciples came and begged him, saying, "Send her away, for **she keeps crying out after us."** 1st suggestion: We have a tN for "answered her not a word". 2nd suggestion: Some versions do not have "keeps" and some versions have "shouting". I think the ULB is ok as is. --------- ULB 15:24 reads: \v 24 But Jesus answered and said, "**I was not sent to anyone except** to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Suggest change to: \v 24 But he answered and said, "**I was sent only** to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Some other versions have "I was not sent except." I think the ULB is ok as is. --------- The ULB of Mat 18:2 reads: \v 2 Jesus called to himself a little child, set him among them, Suggested change to: \v 2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them, I think the ULB is ok as is. ---------- ULB Mat 21:23 reads: \v 23 When Jesus **had come** into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him as he was teaching and said, "By what authority do you do these things, and who gave you this authority?" Suggested change to: \v 23 When he **came** into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him as he was teaching and said, "By what authority do you do these things, and who gave you this authority?" Note on Mat 21:23--aorist verb, participle, not a perfect as in the ULB. Note προσέρχομαι also is aorist (ULB translates as aorist). The perfect doesn't distort the image and some other versions have it. I think the ULB is ok as is.

hmw3 commented

2020-09-09 19:05:30 +00:00

The tagging process has revealed a bunch of mistranslations and UDB-isms. If SQ's rubric for changes holds sway for now, further down the line, once the field starts making requests for it, the text can be gone through for a more rigorous consistency check.

My guess is that the superfluous supplying of "Jesus" is a holdover from the "chunky" version of the translation. Now that we're spreading the "smooth" version, we should probably follow Greek or English discourse practice and change to pronouns. The tagging process has revealed a bunch of mistranslations and UDB-isms. If SQ's rubric for changes holds sway for now, further down the line, once the field starts making requests for it, the text can be gone through for a more rigorous consistency check.