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Mat 1:8 Joram #429
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Reference: WycliffeAssociates/en_ulb#429
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ULB has "Joram." Should it be "Jehoram" to match NIV?
There are 33 occurrences of Joram in the OT. 2x in NT (repeating same name).
The Heb is יוֹרָם Joram in many.
NET has Joram
ASV has Jehoram
CEV has Joram
NRSV has Jehoram
Heb has: יְהוֹרָם֙ Jehoram. (spelling in HEB text.
The spelling of the Greek is Joram (only occurrences in the Greek NT).
NIV OT 2KI 8:16 has Joram.
Perhaps a footnote that Joram is the same person as Jehoram (son of Jehoshaphat). The footnotes in the ancient copies shows that Jehoram is a variant of Joram.
Jehoram is a variant of Joram.
2 Kings 1:17; 3:1, 6; 8; (Joram is a variant of Jehoram 2 Ki 8:16, 23, 24; 2 Ki 8:21 Joram is a variant of Jehoram) 2Ki 8:25 Joram son of Ahab (Jehoram a variant of Joram)
2Ki 8:14 killing of Joram, 9:15 Joram a variant of Jehoram, 17, 21-24. Joram note 9:16 (variant of Jehoram); Note 2CH 22:5, Jehoram, a variant of Joram; 22:6; 7;
And ULB
Jehoram
1KI 22:50-51 Jeroham יְהוֹרָ֥ם (in ULB) 2 Kings has the HEB Jehoram (note a variant of Joram).
AND ULB
1CH 3:11 (and ULB)
2CH is Jehoram (with NIV notes) and through 1 and 2 Chronicles.
Exceptions for Joram
In 2Ch is Jehoram 2CH 17:8; 21:1,2, 4,5,8, 10, 12, 16, 20, 22: 1,5,6, 11
Seems as if the ULB follows the shifts in the OT from Joram to Jehoram from the OT. The occurrence of Joram in the NT would be to follow the Greek spelling (also aligning with other versions).
The use of Jeroham and Joram in the OT seem to be same person with similar names.
I would suggest that we leave Joram in the NIV in Matt 1:8 with a footnote that the Hebrew name can be spelled with Joram or Jehoram).
Suggested footnote:
\f + \ft The names \fqa Joram \fqa* and \fqa Jehoram \fqa* are referring to the same person. Here the name Joram is following the Greek spelling of the Hebrew name. \f*
The NIV2011 in Mat 1:8 has "Jehoram." If we're using the NIV2011 as our standard, that's how the ULB should read there. Otherwise we need to set a policy and write it down somewhere, e.g., "Where the NIV departs from the Greek in rendering Hebrew names, we will follow the Greek," in which case we will need to make sure we do that consistently.
Or we note that this is an exception.
It's less work and more consistent to follow the NIV.
There were exceptions to the NIV names being rolled over into the ULB and UDB. There were some place names that, in the NIV, were more confusing than helpful. Not many, just a few.
The Greek in Matt is reflecting a large number of occurrences of the name Joram both in the name included in Matthew 2x, and in about half of the names referring to Joram in the OT.
Matt 1:8 is a Hapax in the New Testament (and that may give my argument a little cred). The modern versions are about evenly divided.
Our decision in the Text Team to use of the NIV was to give the majority of renderings a sense of continuity, and to have a credible version by which to compare. It would not be following "continuity" if we have a name in the Greek text that is reflective of the same spelling in Hebrew in many occurrences of Joram or Jehoram. This is an example where following the NIV just for the sake of following the NIV, may not make sense if the NIV was not giving the name in Greek as the writer put the name down. There were place names in the NIV that we did not follow. This would happen when a place name was not clearly identified, and so other versions were called up for suggestions, and the decision was sometimes made to make an obscure place more accessible to the reader.
I would think that there may be some purpose for Matthew in choosing Joram, and without a better reason, his selection would stand. A footnote might help the reader.
Note that the UDB has "Joram" at Matthew 1:8
UDB:
\v 8 Asa was the father of Jehoshaphat. Jehoshaphat was the father of Joram. Joram was an ancestor of Uzziah.
I think Jim Pohlig and I (and others) did talk about this one some time back.
The NIV was followed, if following the NIV was helpful or making a text more clear or understandable. If not, it may be another suggestion that would be put in place of the NIV. But, in MOST CASES, the NIV was very helpful for continuity (the rule was broken when a clear and understandable name was exchanged for another name) ... there seemed to be no reason to follow the NIV here because the author chose this name in this place.
It wasn't a name that was unknown in the OT, the problem arose when the OT name was used in two different names referring to the same person.
The change back to Jehoram would be, in my mind, adding an confusion to the reader of the New Testament. Why would we use Jehoram יְהוֹרָם in the NT, and so to essentially reversing the way the text was written. If in the Greek it appears to be Ἰωρὰμ? and not Seems as if we are making the Hebrew into Greek, when the apostle already changed the Hebrew into Greek.
Either name In Mat 1:8 would need to be explained, it seems.
A clue may be that the LXX has Ιωραμ, where Joram would be translated. See 2KI 1:18.
Enough of my protestations.
I don't know the full background as to when we follow the NIV11 and when we make exceptions. I'm fine with spelling it either way. Wouldn't this be a translation issue rather than a textual issue? Should whatever explanation we give go in the tN's rather than a ULB footnote?
There would not be a need for the footnote if there were no challenge to the NIV at Mat 1:8, where they translated the text in a different form than the Greek text had it.
I noted that many of the modern versions, on this point, did regularly identify Joram as Jehoram or vice versa (in the OT), and the fact that they were the same individual. The footnotes in one of the modern versions:
Taken from the NIV11:
2KI 1:17 Hebrew Jehoram, a variant of Joram.
Explaining the appearance of "Jehoram" when one might expect "Joram." Or the reverse.
Our fn could read:
Joram is a variant of the Hebrew name, Jehoram.
In a footnote it would be:
\f + \ft \fqa Joram \fqa* is a variant of the Hebrew name \fqa Jehoram. \fqa* \f*
This would alert the reader that the two names refer to the same individual.
It would be easier to make a tN on it.
It isn't hard for a text change.
\v 8 Asa was the father of Jehoshaphat. Jehoshaphat was the father of Joram. Joram was an ancestor of Uzziah. \f + \ft \fqa Joram \fqa* is a variant of the Hebrew name \fqa Jehoram. \fqa* \f*
There it is.
How about this for a tN?
Joram - This man was called both Joram and Jehoram in the Old Testament.
That works. Just imagining that most wouldn't go from the name to the tN, nearly so much as to go from the name to the footnote, right before them.
Seems that they would not be alerted to the dual name of Joram until they read the tN.
But if they were reading and wondered who Joram was, then the info is right there in the footnote.
Why not a tN and a footnote? Study bibles have footnotes and instruction along the way.
Do not many tNs have some instances that are listed in the footnotes (like verses that are in KJV but not in the ULB?).
Thoughts?
I don't think that most will have an issue with the name Joram. If they're bothered by it (That is, if they have a Bible that calls him Jehoram in Mat 1:8), their next step should be to check the tW for Joram (if there is one) or check the tNs.
The KJV has Joram, so they would be more confused by the suggested change to Jehoram.
There are places in the ULB that we concede to the KJV in a footnote, telling them how the ULB is different. Here the KJV needs no defender.
Just checked the OGNT, the Eng translation of the OGNT has Ἰωρὰμ as Jehoram (!!) in Mat 1:8 one for the readable version, one for the literal version (that reads like Eng).
Really it has both in the OGNT worksheet
Ἰωράμ
Iōram
iyoram
Ἰωράμ
N-ASM-P
G2496
Jehoram
Joram,
Ἰωρὰμ
Iōram
iyoram
Ἰωράμ
N-NSM-P
G2496
Jehoram
Joram
I'll write the tN for Joram.
Thanks very much.