Forsake

SusanQuigley commented

2020-04-17 17:08:10 +00:00

Owner

We decided on a Skype call to remove "forsake" and its forms from the ULB. #234

That will be a lot of work. It occurs 70 times in the ULB.

We decided on a Skype call to remove "forsake" and its forms from the ULB. https://content.bibletranslationtools.org/WycliffeAssociates/en_ulb/issues/234 That will be a lot of work. It occurs 70 times in the ULB.

SusanQuigley added the

Tom

John

Henry

labels 2020-04-17 17:12:21 +00:00

hmw3 removed the

Henry

label 2020-04-20 17:15:54 +00:00

hmw3 commented

2020-04-20 17:16:47 +00:00

I'm happy to do the changes. Just let me know change to what. I'm certainly OK with the change being made.

JohnH commented

2020-04-20 17:20:41 +00:00

Owner

Is there anyway we could set up a script to just replace the various forms of "forsake" with the various forms of "abandon"?

I did not read through all 70 occurrences, but "abandon" would work for the ones I reviewed.

Is there anyway we could set up a script to just replace the various forms of "forsake" with the various forms of "abandon"? I did not read through all 70 occurrences, but "abandon" would work for the ones I reviewed.

JohnH added

Susan

and removed

John

labels 2020-04-20 17:20:49 +00:00

SusanQuigley commented

2020-04-20 17:34:16 +00:00

Author

Owner

I looked at bunch starting from the back of the Bible and it looks like "abandon" should work well.
Henry, please change forsake to abandon.

I looked at bunch starting from the back of the Bible and it looks like "abandon" should work well. **Henry, please change forsake to abandon.**

TomWarren commented

2020-04-21 14:03:31 +00:00

Not so simple as replacing forsake with abandon.

If just in the NEW, all is well and good.
If it crosses over to the OT then it is much more complicated.

Could we just change forsake to abandon (but skip those where it simply means 'to leave').

Are we just accepting the ULB's rendering of the various
Some of the renderings are using different source ... like καταλείπω ... 2PE 2:15,

(Following ESV) There are 216 uses of עזב in the OT ... but all of them are not rendered forsake. ...
some abandoned ... some he left ... he will leave ... let it loose ... neglect ... forsook (5x, Mat 26:56, "forsook" only in NT) ...

Suggest using abandon(ed) in the NT but to leave the OT alone. If we follow the HEB in the OT, there is quite a broader meaning "leave" "left" etc ... there are just a few in the NT.

It doesn't seem good to change 70 changes most in the OT without checking the context ... The NT is clear ... just a few ... abandon is fine. And not just 70 of them but all 216 uses of עזב

noticing too that Mat 27:46 has a more intensive: ἐγκαταλείπω

Suggest using abandon(ed) for forsake(n) in the NT but to leave the OT alone. If we follow the HEB in the OT, there is quite a broader meaning "leave" "left" etc ... there are just a few in the NT.

If just "forsake" to "abandon" in the Gospels, or others with similar meaning ... that works. And leave the OT as it is (or change "forsook" to more modern language in the 5 mentioned above).

Tom

Not so simple as replacing forsake with abandon. If just in the NEW, all is well and good. If it crosses over to the OT then it is much more complicated. Could we just change forsake to abandon (but skip those where it simply means 'to leave'). Are we just accepting the ULB's rendering of the various Some of the renderings are using different source ... like καταλείπω ... 2PE 2:15, (Following ESV) There are 216 uses of עזב in the OT ... but all of them are not rendered forsake. ... some abandoned ... some he left ... he will leave ... let it loose ... neglect ... forsook (5x, Mat 26:56, "forsook" only in NT) ... Suggest using abandon(ed) in the NT but to leave the OT alone. If we follow the HEB in the OT, there is quite a broader meaning "leave" "left" etc ... there are just a few in the NT. It doesn't seem good to change 70 changes most in the OT without checking the context ... The NT is clear ... just a few ... abandon is fine. And not just 70 of them but all 216 uses of עזב noticing too that Mat 27:46 has a more intensive: ἐγκαταλείπω Suggest using abandon(ed) for forsake(n) in the NT but to leave the OT alone. If we follow the HEB in the OT, there is quite a broader meaning "leave" "left" etc ... there are just a few in the NT. If just "forsake" to "abandon" in the Gospels, or others with similar meaning ... that works. And leave the OT as it is (or change "forsook" to more modern language in the 5 mentioned above). Tom

JohnH commented

2020-04-21 14:12:07 +00:00

Owner

I agree that we should not use "abandon" every time עזב is used but only the places where we used the word "forsake." From what I saw, "abandon" would work in all of those cases, but like I said above, I did not read through all 70 instances.

Thanks John.
There are 216 uses of עזב . Indicating that עזב is used more than 70x in other ways than forsake (leave, depart, etc). If we steered away from the OT, the few changes in the NT would be fine.
Just trying to simplify.

Tom

SQ.

If we change only the English word 'forsake' in the ULB to 'abandon,' that won't affect the other passages where עזב was translated as 'leave' or 'depart.' It would only affect those passages where עזב (or any other word) was translated as 'forsake.'

JH: I am in favor of Henry using a script to change the English word "forsake" to "abandon" in the ULB.

I agree that we should not use "abandon" every time **עזב** is used but only the places where we used the word "forsake." From what I saw, "abandon" would work in all of those cases, but like I said above, I did not read through all 70 instances. _____________________ Thanks John. There are 216 uses of עזב . Indicating that עזב is used more than 70x in other ways than forsake (leave, depart, etc). If we steered away from the OT, the few changes in the NT would be fine. Just trying to simplify. Tom ______________________ SQ. If we change only the English word 'forsake' in the ULB to 'abandon,' that won't affect the other passages where עזב was translated as 'leave' or 'depart.' It would only affect those passages where עזב (or any other word) was translated as 'forsake.' -------------------- JH: I am in favor of Henry using a script to change the English word "forsake" to "abandon" in the ULB.