Behold in ULB and UDB (derived from the ASV, and others, but consistency seems to vary, and selection criteria??

TomWarren commented

2019-10-04 13:43:28 +00:00

Check old Issue 2231
https://git.door43.org/WycliffeAssociates/en_ulb/issues/2231

for sorting of terms ...

Check old Issue 2231 https://git.door43.org/WycliffeAssociates/en_ulb/issues/2231 for sorting of terms ...

TomWarren changed title from ~~Behold in ULB and UDB~~ to Behold in ULB and UDB (derived from the ASV, and others, but consistency seems to vary, and selection criteria??

2019-10-04 13:44:40 +00:00

SusanQuigley commented

2019-10-25 17:53:16 +00:00

Owner

There are 268 instances of "behold" or "Behold" in the ULB.
We do not have a tW page for "behold".
We have 226 files in tN with "behold."

Here's what we have about it in the limited translation glossaries on "Decisions Concerning the ULB." https://content.bibletranslationtools.org/WycliffeAssociates/en_ulb/src/branch/master/01-About_the_ULB_for_Editors/ULB-Decisions.for.ULB.Editors.md

hinneh "look," "see," "see here," or something else suitable for signaling that what immediately follows in direct reported speech is prominent.
- Often "behold" in direct reported speech of God or his angel, especially if it lends more dignity in English to the divine words than "look" or "see," etc., would do.
- Also "behold" in narrative passages, including narrative that is embedded in direct speech, such as when Joseph tells his brothers what happened in his dreams)
idou: "look," "see," "see here," or something else suitable for signaling that what immediately follows in direct reported speech is prominent.
- Often "behold" in direct reported speech of God or his angel, especially if it lends more dignity in English to the divine words than "look" or "see," etc., would do.
- Also "behold" in narrative passages, including narrative that is embedded in direct speech.

Do you think that the explanations above might be adequate?

Examples of tNs for behold
Then behold
The word "behold" alerts us to the sudden appearance of a new person in the story. Your language may have a way of doing this.

behold
The word "behold" here shows that the messengers were surprised by what they saw.

Behold, to
"Pay attention, because what I am about to say is both true and important: to"

There are 268 instances of "behold" or "Behold" in the ULB. We do not have a tW page for "behold". We have 226 files in tN with "behold." Here's what we have about it in the limited translation glossaries on "Decisions Concerning the ULB." https://content.bibletranslationtools.org/WycliffeAssociates/en_ulb/src/branch/master/01-About_the_ULB_for_Editors/ULB-Decisions.for.ULB.Editors.md * *hinneh* "**look**," "**see**," "**see here**," or something else suitable for signaling that what immediately follows in direct reported speech is prominent. * Often "**behold**" in direct reported speech of God or his angel, especially if it lends more dignity in English to the divine words than "look" or "see," etc., would do. * Also "**behold**" in narrative passages, including narrative that is embedded in direct speech, such as when Joseph tells his brothers what happened in his dreams) * *idou*: "**look**," "**see**," "**see here**," or something else suitable for signaling that what immediately follows in direct reported speech is prominent. * Often "**behold**" in direct reported speech of God or his angel, especially if it lends more dignity in English to the divine words than "look" or "see," etc., would do. * Also "**behold**" in narrative passages, including narrative that is embedded in direct speech. Do you think that the explanations above might be adequate? ----- Examples of tNs for behold **Then behold** The word "behold" alerts us to the sudden appearance of a new person in the story. Your language may have a way of doing this. **behold** The word "behold" here shows that the messengers were surprised by what they saw. **Behold, to** "Pay attention, because what I am about to say is both true and important: to"

TomWarren commented

2019-10-25 18:00:43 +00:00

Author

The difficulty would be that in many cases the Heb or Greek was not being expressed at all.

I had wanted either there be consistent rendering of the terms, or explain that we do not use them, or use them in a span of occasions.

The NIV11 has only ONE occurrence, Num 24:17 ( in the sense of "I behold him ...")

The ASV (our predecessor) renders "behold" 1,377x.
The ESV renders thsi word 1,117x.

The relative paucity of "behold" in some translations seem to be by different hands on the text, not a consistent application of some translation principle or identification of some span of meaning.

Tom

The difficulty would be that in many cases the Heb or Greek was not being expressed at all. I had wanted either there be consistent rendering of the terms, or explain that we do not use them, or use them in a span of occasions. The NIV11 has only ONE occurrence, Num 24:17 ( in the sense of "I behold him ...") The ASV (our predecessor) renders "behold" 1,377x. The ESV renders thsi word 1,117x. The relative paucity of "behold" in some translations seem to be by different hands on the text, not a consistent application of some translation principle or identification of some span of meaning. Tom

SusanQuigley commented

2019-10-25 19:35:27 +00:00

Owner

Henry sent us text files showing all the instances of the Hebrew and Greek forms that are commonly translated "Behold".
Strong's H2005, H2006, H2009 - 1167 times
Strong's G2400 - 201 times
It seems like a big job to go to each one to make sure they are all rendered in a consistent way (whatever the way might be).

Henry sent us text files showing all the instances of the Hebrew and Greek forms that are commonly translated "Behold". Strong's H2005, H2006, H2009 - 1167 times Strong's G2400 - 201 times It seems like a big job to go to each one to make sure they are all rendered in a consistent way (whatever the way might be).

chrisjarka commented

2019-10-25 20:45:55 +00:00

Owner

Hello all, I will bring this ISSUE to a close. For until we have heard from the end-users that they are confused by any particular instance of 'behold' found in the ULB - we do not need to make any changes.

chrisjarka closed this issue

2019-10-25 20:45:55 +00:00

TomWarren commented

2019-10-28 13:15:32 +00:00

Author

There are 147 examples of "Behold" in the ULB, as a rendering for the traditonal "Behold."

There are 47 examples of "Look" in the ULB, as a rendering for the traditional "Behold."

There are 384 examples of "See" in the ULB, as a rendering for "Behold" ...

It might be better if the set of the 147, the 47 and the 384, and render them all with something consistent ...

With over 1100 or 1300 of these occurrences, we would be missing perhaps more than half of these examples.

Could we have just a little talk about this problem? ...

This problem has been floating around for several years. I'd like to see it resolved ...

Thanks,

Tom

There are 147 examples of "Behold" in the ULB, as a rendering for the traditonal "Behold." There are 47 examples of "Look" in the ULB, as a rendering for the traditional "Behold." There are 384 examples of "See" in the ULB, as a rendering for "Behold" ... It might be better if the set of the 147, the 47 and the 384, and render them all with something consistent ... With over 1100 or 1300 of these occurrences, we would be missing perhaps more than half of these examples. Could we have just a little talk about this problem? ... This problem has been floating around for several years. I'd like to see it resolved ... Thanks, Tom

TomWarren commented

2019-10-28 14:17:15 +00:00

Author

The UDB has similar issues.

There are 25 examples of "See" for "Behold"
There are 123 examples of "Look!" for "Behold"

and others irregularly rendered.

Tom

The UDB has similar issues. There are 25 examples of "See" for "Behold" There are 123 examples of "Look!" for "Behold" and others irregularly rendered. Tom

Behold in ULB and UDB (derived from the ASV, and others, but consistency seems to vary, and selection criteria?? #2