2019 02:12 PM #177

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opened 2020-04-09 15:54:53 +00:00 by JohnH · 2 comments

JohnH commented

2020-04-09 15:54:53 +00:00

Owner

Tom, we're requesting changes for 2Pe 3:18 and 2:7-8.

2:13

\v 13 They will receive the reward of their wrongdoing. They think that luxury during the day is a pleasure. They are stains and blemishes. They enjoy their deceitful actions while they are feasting with you.
\v 13 suffering wrong as a reward for wrongdoing. They think that luxury during the day is a pleasure. They are stains and blemishes. They enjoy their deceitful actions while they are feasting with you.
\v 13 suffering harm as a reward for doing harm. They think that luxury during the day is a pleasure. They are stains and blemishes. They enjoy their deceitful actions while they are feasting with you.

I did not like the change to "suffering wrong" since it sounds like God is doing something wrong. In the next commit it was changed to "suffering harm as a reward for doing harm" which I think is good. I am fine with the current ULB.

SQ. So am I.

We see nothing to do here on 2:13.

**Tom, we're requesting changes for 2Pe 3:18 and 2:7-8.** 2:13 \v 13 **They will receive the reward of their** wrongdoing. They think that luxury during the day is a pleasure. They are stains and blemishes. They enjoy their deceitful actions while they are feasting with you. \v 13 **suffering wrong as a reward for** wrongdoing. They think that luxury during the day is a pleasure. They are stains and blemishes. They enjoy their deceitful actions while they are feasting with you. \v 13 suffering **harm** as a reward for doing harm. They think that luxury during the day is a pleasure. They are stains and blemishes. They enjoy their deceitful actions while they are feasting with you. I did not like the change to "suffering wrong" since it sounds like God is doing something wrong. In the next commit it was changed to "suffering harm as a reward for doing harm" which I think is good. I am fine with the current ULB. ------- SQ. So am I. **We see nothing to do here on 2:13.**

JohnH commented

2020-04-09 16:02:07 +00:00

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Owner

3:18

\v 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. May the glory be to him both now and forever. Amen!
\v 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. May the glory be to him both now and until the day of eternity. Amen!
\v 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. May the glory be to him both now and until the day of eternity. Amen!

This change is more literal, and other translations do the same. I am ok with this change, except should "until" be "to"?

SQ. I think the change is good.
John, what difference do you see between "until" and "to"?

JH. Probably not a huge difference in meaning. I normally see εἰς translated as "to." I'm fine either way.

SQ. I wonder if "until" implies an endpoint and if "to" does not imply that. If so, then maybe "until" should be changed to "to".

John and Tom. What do you think? Should "until" be changed to "to," or is it fine as is?

\v 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. May the glory be to him both now and until the day of eternity. Amen!

I agree. Suggestion is better. I will apply it...

The ULB of 2PE 3:18 now reads:

\v 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. May the glory be to him both now and to the day of eternity. Amen!

3:18 \v 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. May the glory be to him both now and **forever**. Amen! \v 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. May the glory be to him both now and **until the day of eternity**. Amen! \v 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. May the glory be to him both now and until the day of eternity. Amen! This change is more literal, and other translations do the same. I am ok with this change, except should "until" be "to"? ------ SQ. I think the change is good. **John, what difference do you see between "until" and "to"?** ---------------------------- JH. Probably not a huge difference in meaning. I normally see εἰς translated as "to." I'm fine either way. ----------- SQ. I wonder if "until" implies an endpoint and if "to" does not imply that. If so, then maybe "until" should be changed to "to". **John and Tom. What do you think? Should "until" be changed to "to," or is it fine as is?** \v 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. May the glory be to him both now and **until** the day of eternity. Amen! ___________________ I agree. Suggestion is better. I will apply it... The ULB of 2PE 3:18 now reads: \v 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. May the glory be to him both now and to the day of eternity. Amen!

SusanQuigley commented

2020-04-17 13:26:15 +00:00

Owner

2 Peter 2:7

-\v 7 But as for the righteous Lot, he was oppressed by the sensual behavior of lawless people.
-\v 8 So that righteous man, who was living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul because of what he saw and heard.

+\v 7 And he delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the sensual behavior of lawless people**—**
+\v 8 that righteous man, who was living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul because of their lawless deeds.

Current ULB is the same as the second.

The first version left out "he delivered" in v7 and "their lawless deeds" in v 8.
The second version left out "by seeing and hearing in v 8.
Also I find the hyphen confusing. When I see the hyphen, I expect just a phrase to follow, not a full sentence.

John, what would you think of something like this?

\v 7 And he delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the sensual behavior of lawless people**.**
\v 8 For that righteous man, who was living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds.

I am fine with Susan's suggestion. I noticed that many other translations use parentheses in verse 8 and add some kind of logical connection to verse 9. Perhaps what we have in the UDB will be enough.

Current ULB (with Susan's suggestion)
\v 7 And he delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the sensual behavior of lawless people**.**
\v 8 For that righteous man, who was living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds.
\v 9 The Lord knows how to rescue godly men out of trials and how to hold unrighteous men in custody so they can be punished on the day of judgment.

Current UDB
\v 7 But he rescued Abraham's nephew, Lot, who was a righteous man. Lot was greatly distressed because the people in Sodom were doing very immoral deeds.
\v 8 That righteous man was in agony because every day he saw and heard those wicked people do things against God's law.
\v 9 And since the Lord rescued Lot, you can be sure that he knows how to rescue people who honor him and how to keep those who do not honor him ready for the time when he will punish them.

SQ. I think the UDB is adequate for showing how v9 relates to verses 7 and 8.

Tom, please make the following changes to 2Pe 2:7,8.

+\v 7 And he delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the sensual behavior of lawless people**—**
+\v 8 that righteous man, who was living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul because of their lawless deeds.

\v 7 And he delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the sensual behavior of lawless people**.**
\v 8 For that righteous man, who was living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds.

The ULB of 2PET 2:7-8 now reads:

\v 7 And he delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the sensual behavior of lawless people.
\v 8 For that righteous man, who was living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds.

Thanks... Tom

2 Peter 2:7 -\v 7 **But as for the** righteous Lot, **he** was oppressed by the sensual behavior of lawless people. -\v 8 **So** that righteous man, who was living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul because of **what he saw and heard**. +\v 7 **And he delivered** righteous Lot, **who** was oppressed by the sensual behavior of lawless people**—** +\v 8 that righteous man, who was living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul because of **their lawless deeds.** Current ULB is the same as the second. * The first version left out "he delivered" in v7 and "their lawless deeds" in v 8. * The second version left out "by seeing and hearing in v 8. * Also I find the hyphen confusing. When I see the hyphen, I expect just a phrase to follow, not a full sentence. **John, what would you think of something like this?** \v 7 **And he delivered** righteous Lot, **who** was oppressed by the sensual behavior of lawless people**.** \v 8 For that righteous man, who was living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by seeing and hearing **their lawless deeds.** ------------------------------ JH I am fine with Susan's suggestion. I noticed that many other translations use parentheses in verse 8 and add some kind of logical connection to verse 9. Perhaps what we have in the UDB will be enough. Current ULB (with Susan's suggestion) \v 7 **And he delivered** righteous Lot, **who** was oppressed by the sensual behavior of lawless people**.** \v 8 For that righteous man, who was living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by seeing and hearing **their lawless deeds.** \v 9 The Lord knows how to rescue godly men out of trials and how to hold unrighteous men in custody so they can be punished on the day of judgment. Current UDB \v 7 But he rescued Abraham's nephew, Lot, who was a righteous man. Lot was greatly distressed because the people in Sodom were doing very immoral deeds. \v 8 That righteous man was in agony because every day he saw and heard those wicked people do things against God's law. \v 9 And since the Lord rescued Lot, you can be sure that he knows how to rescue people who honor him and how to keep those who do not honor him ready for the time when he will punish them. -------- SQ. I think the UDB is adequate for showing how v9 relates to verses 7 and 8. **Tom, please make the following changes to 2Pe 2:7,8.** +\v 7 And he delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the sensual behavior of lawless people**—** +\v 8 **that righteous man,** who was living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul **because of** their lawless deeds. \v 7 And he delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the sensual behavior of lawless people**.** \v 8 **For that righteous man,** who was living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul **by seeing and hearing** their lawless deeds. ___________________ The ULB of 2PET 2:7-8 now reads: \v 7 And he delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the sensual behavior of lawless people. \v 8 For that righteous man, who was living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds. Thanks... Tom