James db9991da From work on PDF Rom 5-6, making use of the "member" tW page. 11/30/2018 02:07 PM

JohnH commented

2020-04-08 14:12:46 +00:00

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James 3:5-6 db9991dad0

-\v 5 In this way, the tongue is a small part of the body, yet it boasts great things. Notice also how small a fire sets on fire a large forest.
\v 6 The tongue is also a fire, a world of sinfulness set among the parts of our body. The tongue stains the whole body, sets on fire the course of life, and is itself set on fire by hell.

+\v 5 In this way, the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts great things. Notice also how small a fire sets on fire a large forest.
\v 6 The tongue is also a fire, a world of sinfulness set among our members. The tongue stains the whole body, sets on fire the course of life, and is itself set on fire by hell.

\v 5 In this way, the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts great things. Notice also how small a fire sets on fire a large forest.
\v 6 The tongue is also a fire, a world of evil set among our members. The tongue defiles the whole body, sets on fire the course of life, and is itself set on fire by hell.

Maybe with "tongue" obviously being a member of the body, using just "member" is clear enough. I'm ok leaving as is, but I think it could be helpful to say "small member of the body" and "set among the members of our body/bodies." I don't know if "body" should be singular or plural here.

SQ. This also comes up on #217.

I think it would be helpful, but I think it may be ok without "of the body/of our bodies" if we make it explicit on the TW page that the word "member" can refer to a part of the physical body of a person or animal.

I'm not sure what is best for the ULB.

What do you all think?

JH

I am ok with either changing the ULB, or leaving as "member" and clarifying in the notes and TW page. I'll let Tom and Henry battle it out :)

James 3:5-6 https://content.bibletranslationtools.org/WycliffeAssociates/en_ulb/commit/db9991dad0808f46c64ede15d7d3cd74ce32f3c7 -\v 5 In this way, the tongue is a small **part of the body**, yet it boasts great things. Notice also how small a fire sets on fire a large forest. \v 6 The tongue is also a fire, a world of sinfulness set among **the parts of our body**. The tongue stains the whole body, sets on fire the course of life, and is itself set on fire by hell. +\v 5 In this way, the tongue is a **small member**, yet it boasts great things. Notice also how small a fire sets on fire a large forest. \v 6 The tongue is also a fire, a world of sinfulness set among **our members**. The tongue stains the whole body, sets on fire the course of life, and is itself set on fire by hell. \v 5 In this way, the tongue is a **small member**, yet it boasts great things. Notice also how small a fire sets on fire a large forest. \v 6 The tongue is also a fire, a world of evil set among **our members**. The tongue defiles the whole body, sets on fire the course of life, and is itself set on fire by hell. Maybe with "tongue" obviously being a member of the body, using just "member" is clear enough. I'm ok leaving as is, but I think it could be helpful to say "small member of the body" and "set among the members of our body/bodies." I don't know if "body" should be singular or plural here. ------ SQ. This also comes up on https://content.bibletranslationtools.org/WycliffeAssociates/en_ulb/issues/217. I think it would be helpful, but I think it may be ok without "of the body/of our bodies" if we make it explicit on the TW page that the word "member" can refer to a part of the **physical body of a person or animal.** I'm not sure what is best for the ULB. **What do you all think?** ---------------------- JH I am ok with either changing the ULB, or leaving as "member" and clarifying in the notes and TW page. I'll let Tom and Henry battle it out :)

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hmw3 commented

2020-04-18 21:35:22 +00:00

In English we can be human members of a congregation or have members of our bodies. In Greek a μέλος is always and only a body part, and when we are members of the church it is only in the metaphor of the church as Christ's body. In modern English usage, "member" is most commonly a human, not a body part, though M-W actually lists body part first https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/member. So I think we're safe keeping "member" and unpacking it on the tW page.

In English we can be human members of a congregation or have members of our bodies. In Greek a μέλος is always and only a body part, and when we are members of the church it is only in the metaphor of the church as Christ's body. In modern English usage, "member" is most commonly a human, not a body part, though M-W actually lists body part first [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/member](member). So I think we're safe keeping "member" and unpacking it on the tW page.

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TomWarren commented

2020-04-21 17:27:58 +00:00

Member crosses over from parts of the body to metaphorical parts of the body ... the closeness of the literal body to the body of Christ seems to be intentional. It is ok to leave to tension between physical body to the body of Christ -- similar to the teaching that "we are the body of Christ an individually members of it", and that metaphor should be protected.

Member is part of a body (overlaid with we are members of the body of Christ). The connection between the body of Christ and the physical body is a helpful took, much like Paul picks up on (see 1 Cor 12:16) "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body."

Unpacking this in the tW could be helpful. (or the tN, where needed)
(Which is used for metaphor? more often?)

Thanks, Tom

Member crosses over from parts of the body to metaphorical parts of the body ... the closeness of the literal body to the body of Christ seems to be intentional. It is ok to leave to tension between physical body to the body of Christ -- similar to the teaching that "we are the body of Christ an individually members of it", and that metaphor should be protected. Member is part of a body (overlaid with we are members of the body of Christ). The connection between the body of Christ and the physical body is a helpful took, much like Paul picks up on (see 1 Cor 12:16) "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body." Unpacking this in the tW could be helpful. (or the tN, where needed) (Which is used for metaphor? more often?) Thanks, Tom