Heb 0d5d779f From work on PDF Hebrews

JohnH commented

2020-04-06 19:44:25 +00:00

Owner

1:8

-\q The scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of justice.
+\q The scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.
\q The scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. (This change was made in commit b16f537e Changes from Tom Warren)

I don't know if "uprightness" is any better than "justice." Ps 45:6 ULB, the verse quoted in Hebrews 1:8, uses "justice."

TW explains "uprightness" on the page for "righteous", but they don't fit this verse.

This is the only verse with G2118. I think "righteousness" or "justice" would be appropriate here. "Justice" matches the original in Ps 45:6.

John, should we ask Tom to change "uprightness" to "justice"? [JH: yes]

Heb 1:8 now reads:
\v 8 But to the Son he says,
\q "Your throne, God, is forever and ever.
\q The scepter of justice is the scepter of your kingdom.
Committed by Tom W

Rectitude in Isa 59 is נָכֹחַ, uprightness, straight, right, good, honesty, good and right ... honest

1:8 -\q The scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of **justice.** +\q The scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of **uprightness.** \q The **scepter of uprightness** is the scepter of your kingdom. (This change was made in commit b16f537e Changes from Tom Warren) I don't know if "uprightness" is any better than "justice." Ps 45:6 ULB, the verse quoted in Hebrews 1:8, uses "justice." --------- TW explains "uprightness" on the page for "righteous", but they don't fit this verse. This is the only verse with G2118. I think "righteousness" or "justice" would be appropriate here. "Justice" matches the original in Ps 45:6. **John, should we ask Tom to change "uprightness" to "justice"?** [JH: yes] ____________________________________ Heb 1:8 now reads: \v 8 But to the Son he says, \q "Your throne, God, is forever and ever. \q The scepter of justice is the scepter of your kingdom. Committed by Tom W Rectitude in Isa 59 is נָכֹחַ, uprightness, straight, right, good, honesty, good and right ... honest

JohnH commented

2020-04-06 19:58:55 +00:00

Author

Owner

2:17

-\v 17 So it was necessary for him to become like his brothers in all ways, so that he would be a merciful and faithful high priest in relation to the things of God, and so that he would bring about the pardon of the people's sins.
+\v 17 So it was necessary for him to become like his brothers in all ways, so that he would be a merciful and faithful high priest in relation to the things of God, and so that he would make propitiation for the people's sins.
\v 17 So it was necessary for him to become like his brothers in all ways, so that he would be a merciful and faithful high priest in relation to the things of God, and so that he would make propitiation for the people's sins.

G2433 is on "forgive," "mercy," and "propitiation" tw pages. I know this is a theological word with lots of meaning packed in, but it would be nice if we could find a simpler word.

Propitiation is in the ULB 4 times.

SQ
From TW page: The term "propitiation" refers to a sacrifice that is made to satisfy or fulfill the justice of God and to appease his wrath.

The ASV had "propitiation" in the epistles.
In Sept 2016, we had a tW page for "propitiation."
In Dec 2017, only Romans had "propitiation"

'Atonement' and 'atoning sacrifice' are clearer for me. For someone who doesn't know any of these words but has to use TW, it might not make a difference - except that they have to be be able to understand the explanations on the TW pages.

G2433: Luk 18:13, Heb 2:17
G2434: 1Jn 2:2, 4:10
G2435: Rom 3:25

Luke 18:13
\v 13 But the tax collector, standing at a distance, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but hit his breast, saying, 'God, have mercy (ἱλάσκομαι G2433) on me, a sinner.'

Rom 3:25
\v 25 For God provided Christ Jesus as a propitiation (ἱλαστήριος G2435) through faith in his blood. He offered Christ as proof of his justice, because of his disregard of previous sins

Heb 2:17
\v 17 So it was necessary for him to become like his brothers in all ways, so that he would be a merciful and faithful high priest in relation to the things of God, and so that he would make propitiation (ἱλάσκομαι G2433) for the people's sins.

1Jn 2:2
\v 2 He is the propitiation (ἱλασμός G2434) for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.

1Jn 4:10
\v 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and that he sent his Son to be the propitiation (ἱλασμός G2434) for our sins.

"Atoning sacrifice" are noun phrases. Would they be literal translations of G2434 and G2435?

"Make an atoning sacrifice" and "make atonement" are verb phrases. Would they be a literal translation of G2433?

2:17 -\v 17 So it was necessary for him to become like his brothers in all ways, so that he would be a merciful and faithful high priest in relation to the things of God, and so that he would **bring about the pardon of** the people's sins. +\v 17 So it was necessary for him to become like his brothers in all ways, so that he would be a merciful and faithful high priest in relation to the things of God, and so that he would **make propitiation for** the people's sins. \v 17 So it was necessary for him to become like his brothers in all ways, so that he would be a merciful and faithful high priest in relation to the things of God, and so that he would make propitiation for the people's sins. G2433 is on "forgive," "mercy," and "propitiation" tw pages. I know this is a theological word with lots of meaning packed in, but it would be nice if we could find a simpler word. Propitiation is in the ULB 4 times. ---------- SQ From TW page: The term "propitiation" refers to a sacrifice that is made to satisfy or fulfill the justice of God and to appease his wrath. The ASV had "propitiation" in the epistles. In Sept 2016, we had a tW page for "propitiation." In Dec 2017, only Romans had "propitiation" * https://dw.door43.org/en/obe/kt/propitiation * https://git.door43.org/Trainer/en_ulb/src/branch/master/59-HEB.usfm 'Atonement' and 'atoning sacrifice' are clearer for me. For someone who doesn't know any of these words but has to use TW, it might not make a difference - except that they have to be be able to understand the explanations on the TW pages. G2433: Luk 18:13, Heb 2:17 G2434: 1Jn 2:2, 4:10 G2435: Rom 3:25 Luke 18:13 \v 13 But the tax collector, standing at a distance, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but hit his breast, saying, 'God, **have mercy (ἱλάσκομαι G2433)** on me, a sinner.' Rom 3:25 \v 25 For God provided Christ Jesus as **a propitiation (ἱλαστήριος G2435)** through faith in his blood. He offered Christ as proof of his justice, because of his disregard of previous sins Heb 2:17 \v 17 So it was necessary for him to become like his brothers in all ways, so that he would be a merciful and faithful high priest in relation to the things of God, and so that he would **make propitiation (ἱλάσκομαι G2433)** for the people's sins. 1Jn 2:2 \v 2 He is **the propitiation (ἱλασμός G2434)** for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world. 1Jn 4:10 \v 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and that he sent his Son to be **the propitiation (ἱλασμός G2434)** for our sins. "Atoning sacrifice" are noun phrases. Would they be literal translations of G2434 and G2435? "Make an atoning sacrifice" and "make atonement" are verb phrases. Would they be a literal translation of G2433?

SusanQuigley added the

John

Tom

labels 2020-04-14 13:49:31 +00:00

SusanQuigley added the

Henry

label 2020-04-14 14:13:31 +00:00

hmw3 commented

2020-04-15 19:14:48 +00:00

"Atoning sacrifice" is a noun phrase. Would it be literal translations of G2434 and G2435?

Yes

"Make an atoning sacrifice" and "make atonement" are verb phrases. Would they be a literal translation of G2433?

Yes, though the Luke verse doesn't fit the meaning.

"Atoning sacrifice" is a noun phrase. Would it be literal translations of G2434 and G2435? **Yes** "Make an atoning sacrifice" and "make atonement" are verb phrases. Would they be a literal translation of G2433? **Yes,** though the Luke verse doesn't fit the meaning.

TomWarren commented

2020-04-15 20:23:53 +00:00

Romans 3:25 atoning sacrifice
\v 25 For God provided Christ Jesus as an atoning sacrifice through faith in his blood.
Hebrews 2:17 atonement for the sins of the people
1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice
\v 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.
1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice.
\v 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and that he sent his Son to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins.

Checking tN all checked ... and done ...

Romans 3:25 atoning sacrifice \v 25 For God provided Christ Jesus as an atoning sacrifice through faith in his blood. Hebrews 2:17 atonement for the sins of the people 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice \v 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world. 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice. \v 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and that he sent his Son to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins. Checking tN all checked ... and done ...

TomWarren removed the

Tom

label 2020-04-15 20:24:14 +00:00

SusanQuigley closed this issue

2020-04-15 20:26:18 +00:00

Heb 0d5d779f From work on PDF Hebrews #155

Heb `0d5d779f` From work on PDF Hebrews #155