2019 04:22 PM #124

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opened 2020-04-01 19:55:34 +00:00 by JohnH · 1 comment

JohnH commented

2020-04-01 19:55:34 +00:00

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1 Thes 2:12

\v 12 exhorting you and encouraging and urging you to walk in a manner that is worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.
\v 12 exhorting you and comforting you and solemnly charging you to walk in a manner that is worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.
\v 12 exhorting you and comforting you and solemnly charging you to walk in a manner that is worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.

I'm not sure how I feel about "solemnly charging." This is in the ULB 7 times.

It sounds strange to me, and the word "charge" can mean so many different things. I'm leaning towards changing this back to "urging."

The simple answer may be simply, urging. This is the second use of μαρτύρομαι, more as to implore, insist, or URGE.

Urge is good. I think..... Tom Warren

SQ.

90a968bd49
1 Thes 2:12 was the only verse changed in this commit.

I am fine with "solemnly charge (someone to do something)" when someone with authority gives an important command to someone else. (I'm not sure if that would have to be giving someone a duty/task.)

In Issue 134, "solemnly charge" does not seem to fit in 1Ti 4:11.
Issue 136 also mentions "'solemnly charge" in 1Ti 6:17

@TomWarren @JohnH
What do you think of keeping "solemnly charge" when it is a weighty command to do something, and changing it when it seems to be something else?

I'm fine with keeping "solemnly charge" in some verses. Would "earnestly" be more understandable than "solemnly" since we use "earnestly" in other phrases?

SQ
People solemnly swear.
People make earnest pleas. "Earnest" does not seem to imply authority, and that's what I was thinking "solemnly charge" was meant to convey.

TW Command.md has this note:

A "solemn charge" is a command that one person gives as if speaking for God to someone over whom he has authority but no physical control.

I am fine with solemnly charge (fitting several source) ... it seems to be clear. Thanks very much. Noting that we can't be consistently be word for word. But this gets the idea clearly.

Tom

SQ
We skyped more about "solemnly charge" and still felt that it's a more difficult to understand than necessary.
It first shows up in TW in Jan 2019 because of something in 1 Thes. (WA commit 8566e3fb3d)
ULB 1 Thes Commit 90a968bd49

Command.md has this note:

A "solemn charge" is a command that one person gives as if speaking for God to someone over whom he has authority but no physical control.

Please see the window below for my suggestions for all of the verses that have "solemnly charge".

1 Thes 2:12 \v 12 exhorting you and encouraging and **urging** you to walk in a manner that is worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory. \v 12 exhorting you and comforting you and **solemnly charging** you to walk in a manner that is worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory. \v 12 exhorting you and comforting you and solemnly charging you to walk in a manner that is worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory. I'm not sure how I feel about "solemnly charging." This is in the ULB 7 times. It sounds strange to me, and the word "charge" can mean so many different things. I'm leaning towards changing this back to "urging." ______________ The simple answer may be simply, urging. This is the second use of μαρτύρομαι, more as to implore, insist, or URGE. Urge is good. I think..... Tom Warren ----------------- SQ. https://content.bibletranslationtools.org/WycliffeAssociates/en_ulb/commit/90a968bd490bf896413b9b1d74ada452bfeeaa06 1 Thes 2:12 was the only verse changed in this commit. I am fine with "solemnly charge (someone to do something)" when someone with authority gives an important command to someone else. (I'm not sure if that would have to be giving someone a duty/task.) In Issue 134, "solemnly charge" does not seem to fit in 1Ti 4:11. Issue 136 also mentions "'solemnly charge" in 1Ti 6:17 @TomWarren @JohnH **What do you think of keeping "solemnly charge" when it is a weighty command to do something, and changing it when it seems to be something else?** ----------------------- JH I'm fine with keeping "solemnly charge" in some verses. Would "earnestly" be more understandable than "solemnly" since we use "earnestly" in other phrases? -------- SQ People solemnly swear. People make earnest pleas. "Earnest" does not seem to imply authority, and that's what I was thinking "solemnly charge" was meant to convey. TW Command.md has this note: * A "solemn charge" is a command that one person gives as if speaking for God to someone over whom he has authority but no physical control. __________________________ I am fine with solemnly charge (fitting several source) ... it seems to be clear. Thanks very much. Noting that we can't be consistently be word for word. But this gets the idea clearly. Tom ----- SQ We skyped more about "solemnly charge" and still felt that it's a more difficult to understand than necessary. It first shows up in TW in Jan 2019 because of something in 1 Thes. (WA commit https://content.bibletranslationtools.org/WycliffeAssociates/en_tw/commit/8566e3fb3da27ddc0d004b2ffbf96e857626ba3a) ULB 1 Thes Commit https://content.bibletranslationtools.org/WycliffeAssociates/en_ulb/commit/90a968bd490bf896413b9b1d74ada452bfeeaa06 Command.md has this note: * A "solemn charge" is a command that one person gives as if speaking for God to someone over whom he has authority but no physical control. **Please see the window below for my suggestions for all of the verses that have "solemnly charge".**

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SusanQuigley commented

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All instances of solemnly charge in the ULB.

Gen 26:11
\v 11 So Abimelek solemnly charged all the people and said, "Whoever touches this man or his wife will surely be put to death."

Other versions have: charged, ordered, gave orders, issued a public proclamation, warned
H6680 is on these pages: appoint.md, authority.md, command.md, decree.md, instruct.md, ordain.md
I suggest "commanded" for Gen 26:11

The ULB of Gen 26:11 now reads:
\v 11 So Abimelek commanded all the people and said, "Whoever touches this man or his wife will surely be put to death."
TomW

1TH 2:12
\v 11 In the same way you know how we were with each one of you, as a father with his own children,
\v 12 exhorting you and comforting you and solemnly charging (G3143 μαρτύρομαι) you to walk in a manner that is worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.

Other versions of 1TH 2:12 have implore, urge, charge, and insist.
ULB had urge.
G3143 is on these TW pages: command.md, test.md, and testimony.md
I suggest either "commanding" or "urging" for 1TH 2:12

The ULB of 1 Thess 2:12 now reads:
\v 12 exhorting you and comforting you and urging you to walk in a manner that is worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.
TomW

1Th 5:27
\v 27 I solemnly charge (G6034 ἐνορκίζομαι) you by the Lord to have this letter read to all the brothers.
TomW

Other versions of 1Th 5:27 have urge, adjure, charge, command, order, put you under oath.
G6034 is not on any tW page.
I suggest either "I urge you" or "I command you" for 1Th 5:27.

The ULB of 1TH 5:27 now reads:
\v 27 I command you by the Lord to have this letter read to all the brothers.
TomW

1Ti 4:11
\v 11 Solemnly charge (G3853 παραγγέλλω) and teach these things.

Other versions of 1Ti 4:11 have teach, prescribe, command, insist on.
ULB had proclaim.
G3853 is on these pages: command.md, instruct.md, and praise.md.
I suggest "Instruct the people" for 1Ti 4:11

The ULB of 1TI 4:11 now reads:
\v 11 Instruct the people and teach these things.
TomW

1Ti 5:7
\v 7 Solemnly charge (G3853 παραγγέλλω) these things as well, so that they may be blameless.

Other versions of 1Ti 5:7 have give these instructions, prescribe, command, insist on.
I suggest "Instruct them in" for 1Ti 5:7

1Ti 5:7 now reads:
\v 7 Instruct them in these things as well, so that they may be blameless.
TomW

1Ti 6:17
\v 17 Solemnly charge (G3853 παραγγέλλω) the rich in this world not to be proud and not to hope in riches, which are uncertain. Instead, they should hope in God. He offers to us all the true riches to enjoy.

Other versions of 1Ti 6:17 have teach, instruct, warn, charge, command,
I suggest "Instruct" for 1Ti 6:17

The ULB of 1TI 6:17 now reads:
\v 17 Instruct the rich in this world not to be proud and not to hope in riches, which are uncertain. Instead, they should hope in God. He offers to us all the true riches to enjoy.
TomW

2Ti 2:14
\v 14 Keep reminding them of these things. Solemnly charge (G1263 διαμαρτύρομαι) them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value and only ruins those who listen. \f + \ft Some important and ancient Greek copies read, \fqa Warn them before the Lord \fqa* . \f*

Other versions of 2Ti 2:14 have warn, command, (solemnly) charge.
G1263 is on these pages: command.md, test.md, and testimony.md
I suggest "Command them before God not to quarrel" for 2Ti 2:14

The ULB of 2TI 2:14 now reads:

The ULB of 2TI 2:14 now reads:
\v 14 Keep reminding them of these things. Command them before God not to quarrel about words; it is of no value and only ruins those who listen. \f + \ft Some important and ancient Greek copies read, \fqa Warn them before the Lord \fqa* . \f*
TomW

All instances of **solemnly charge** in the ULB. Gen 26:11 \v 11 So Abimelek **solemnly charged** all the people and said, "Whoever touches this man or his wife will surely be put to death." * Other versions have: charged, ordered, gave orders, issued a public proclamation, warned * H6680 is on these pages: appoint.md, authority.md, command.md, decree.md, instruct.md, ordain.md * **I suggest "commanded" for Gen 26:11** The ULB of Gen 26:11 now reads: \v 11 So Abimelek commanded all the people and said, "Whoever touches this man or his wife will surely be put to death." TomW 1TH 2:12 \v 11 In the same way you know how we were with each one of you, as a father with his own children, \v 12 exhorting you and comforting you and solemnly charging **(G3143 μαρτύρομαι)** you to walk in a manner that is worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory. * Other versions of 1TH 2:12 have implore, urge, charge, and insist. * ULB had urge. * G3143 is on these TW pages: command.md, test.md, and testimony.md * **I suggest either "commanding" or "urging" for 1TH 2:12** The ULB of 1 Thess 2:12 now reads: \v 12 exhorting you and comforting you and urging you to walk in a manner that is worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory. TomW 1Th 5:27 \v 27 I solemnly charge **(G6034 ἐνορκίζομαι)** you by the Lord to have this letter read to all the brothers. TomW * Other versions of 1Th 5:27 have urge, adjure, charge, command, order, put you under oath. * G6034 is not on any tW page. * **I suggest either "I urge you" or "I command you" for 1Th 5:27.** The ULB of 1TH 5:27 now reads: \v 27 I command you by the Lord to have this letter read to all the brothers. TomW 1Ti 4:11 \v 11 Solemnly charge **(G3853 παραγγέλλω)** and teach these things. * Other versions of 1Ti 4:11 have teach, prescribe, command, insist on. * ULB had proclaim. * G3853 is on these pages: command.md, instruct.md, and praise.md. * **I suggest "Instruct the people" for 1Ti 4:11** The ULB of 1TI 4:11 now reads: \v 11 Instruct the people and teach these things. TomW 1Ti 5:7 \v 7 Solemnly charge **(G3853 παραγγέλλω)** these things as well, so that they may be blameless. * Other versions of 1Ti 5:7 have give these instructions, prescribe, command, insist on. * **I suggest "Instruct them in" for 1Ti 5:7** 1Ti 5:7 now reads: \v 7 Instruct them in these things as well, so that they may be blameless. TomW 1Ti 6:17 \v 17 Solemnly charge **(G3853 παραγγέλλω)** the rich in this world not to be proud and not to hope in riches, which are uncertain. Instead, they should hope in God. He offers to us all the true riches to enjoy. * Other versions of 1Ti 6:17 have teach, instruct, warn, charge, command, * **I suggest "Instruct" for 1Ti 6:17** The ULB of 1TI 6:17 now reads: \v 17 Instruct the rich in this world not to be proud and not to hope in riches, which are uncertain. Instead, they should hope in God. He offers to us all the true riches to enjoy. TomW 2Ti 2:14 \v 14 Keep reminding them of these things. Solemnly charge **(G1263 διαμαρτύρομαι)** them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value and only ruins those who listen. \f + \ft Some important and ancient Greek copies read, \fqa Warn them before the Lord \fqa* . \f* * Other versions of 2Ti 2:14 have warn, command, (solemnly) charge. * G1263 is on these pages: command.md, test.md, and testimony.md * **I suggest "Command them before God not to quarrel" for 2Ti 2:14** The ULB of 2TI 2:14 now reads: The ULB of 2TI 2:14 now reads: \v 14 Keep reminding them of these things. Command them before God not to quarrel about words; it is of no value and only ruins those who listen. \f + \ft Some important and ancient Greek copies read, \fqa Warn them before the Lord \fqa* . \f* TomW