Heb 13:3 were them #1076

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opened 2022-02-16 16:49:57 +00:00 by SusanQuigley · 5 comments

SusanQuigley commented

2022-02-16 16:49:57 +00:00

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ULB says:
\v 3 Remember prisoners as if you were bound with them. Remember those who are mistreated as if you also were them in the body.

The audio team thought it should be "as if you also were with them in the body".

But Greek is literally Remember ... those being mistreated as also/and yourselves being in the body.

NIV: Continue to remember ... those who are mistreated as if you yourselves were suffering.
ESV: Remember... those who are mistreated, since you also are in the body.
ISV: Continue to remember ... those who are mistreated, since they also are only mortal.

Most versions are like NIV and ESV.

How about one of these?
\v 3 Remember prisoners as if you were bound with them. Remember those who are mistreated as if you yourselves were also suffering in the body.
or
\v 3 Remember prisoners as if you were bound with them. Remember those who are mistreated since you yourselves also are in the body.

The TN says this.

as if you also were them in the body
This phrase encourages believers to think about other people’s suffering as they would think about their own suffering. Alternate translation: “as if you were the one suffering” (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-activepassive)

Should I tell the audio team that the ULB is correct as is?

ULB says: \v 3 Remember prisoners as if you were bound with them. Remember those who are mistreated **as if you also were them in the body.** The audio team thought it should be "as if you also were **with them** in the body". But Greek is literally Remember ... those being mistreated as also/and yourselves being in the body. NIV: Continue to remember ... those who are mistreated **as if you yourselves were suffering.** ESV: Remember... those who are mistreated, **since you also are in the body.** ISV: Continue to remember ... those who are mistreated, **since they also are only mortal.** Most versions are like NIV and ESV. How about one of these? \v 3 Remember prisoners as if you were bound with them. Remember those who are mistreated **as if you yourselves were also suffering in the body.** or \v 3 Remember prisoners as if you were bound with them. Remember those who are mistreated **since you yourselves also are in the body.** The TN says this. **as if you also were them in the body** This phrase encourages believers to think about other people’s suffering as they would think about their own suffering. Alternate translation: “as if you were the one suffering” (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-activepassive) Should I tell the audio team that the ULB is correct as is?

SusanQuigley added the

John

label 2022-02-16 16:50:31 +00:00

SusanQuigley added the

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label 2022-02-23 21:42:37 +00:00

JohnH commented

2022-02-24 14:24:53 +00:00

Owner

This one is tough. The ULB is almost literal. The word "them" makes the statement more confusing. It seems it got stuck somewhere between literal and dynamic.

I lean towards your second suggestion since it is more literal and makes better sense than what we have now.

It seems this could have 2 meanings:

Remember those mistreated because you are human and can suffer likewise.
Remember those mistreated as if you are the one being mistreated.

Do you think these meanings should be added to the note, or is it too confusing?

This one is tough. The ULB is almost literal. The word "them" makes the statement more confusing. It seems it got stuck somewhere between literal and dynamic. I lean towards your second suggestion since it is more literal and makes better sense than what we have now. It seems this could have 2 meanings: 1. Remember those mistreated because you are human and can suffer likewise. 2. Remember those mistreated as if you are the one being mistreated. Do you think these meanings should be added to the note, or is it too confusing?

JohnH added

Susan

and removed

John

labels 2022-02-24 14:25:06 +00:00

SusanQuigley commented

2022-02-24 15:04:01 +00:00

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Owner

since you yourselves also are in the body
Possible meanings are 1) because you are human and can suffer likewise, or 2) as if you are the one being mistreated.

I don't think presenting those two meanings makes it more complicated. In practicality, there's not much difference between them, but either one of them might be easier for a translator.

**since you yourselves also are in the body** Possible meanings are 1) because you are human and can suffer likewise, or 2) as if you are the one being mistreated. I don't think presenting those two meanings makes it more complicated. In practicality, there's not much difference between them, but either one of them might be easier for a translator.

SusanQuigley commented

2022-02-24 15:25:31 +00:00

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Owner

Because of the also/and in the Greek, I did the TN like this:

since you yourselves also are in the body

Possible meanings are 1) because you are human and can suffer likewise, or 2) as if you too were being mistreated.

I also used the subjunctive "were" because it goes with "as if", but if you think that our readers would likely mistake it for the past tense, we could change it to "are".

Because of the also/and in the Greek, I did the TN like this: **since you yourselves also are in the body** Possible meanings are 1) because you are human and can suffer likewise, or 2) as if **you too** were being mistreated. I also used the subjunctive "were" because it goes with "as if", but if you think that our readers would likely mistake it for the past tense, we could change it to "are".

SusanQuigley added

John

and removed

Susan

Audio Waiting

labels 2022-02-24 15:26:28 +00:00

JohnH commented

2022-02-24 15:40:02 +00:00

Owner

Looks good to me.