2 Cor 4319197b Conform possessive form for proper names ending with -s to Chicago Manual 16. 02/06/2019 02:02 PM

JohnH commented

2020-03-31 14:41:25 +00:00

Owner

2 Cor 3:7

-\v 7 Now the ministry of death—engraved in letters on stones—came in such glory that the sons of Israel could not look directly at Moses' face. This is because of the glory of his face, a glory that was fading.
+\v 7 Now the ministry of death—engraved in letters on stones—came in such glory that the sons of Israel could not look directly at Moses's face. This is because of the glory of his face, a glory that was fading.

If this is our standard way of dealing with possessives, I'm fine with the changes. However, I've always written Jesus' and Moses'

At some point, we may need to do a search through other resources and standardize this.

SQ

Though in the past I felt strongly for using 's on their names, I don't feel so strongly about it now.
I wonder if we want to ask how people feel about it. If most people who have a preference prefer just the apostrophe, maybe we should go back to it. -- I'm thinking Chris, Tom, Henry, Drew, Bob, you, and me.

If we change back to Jesus's and Moses's, we need to makes sure that each instance of Jesus' and Moses' really has an apostrophe and not a final single quote mark.

And you're right. Whatever we decide, we need to make sure the resources match -- at least the ones that are based on the ULB.

(I checked the WA Style Guidelines on Sharepoint, and it does not address this.)

2 Cor 3:7 -\v 7 Now the ministry of death—engraved in letters on stones—came in such glory that the sons of Israel could not look directly at **Moses'** face. This is because of the glory of his face, a glory that was fading. +\v 7 Now the ministry of death—engraved in letters on stones—came in such glory that the sons of Israel could not look directly at **Moses's** face. This is because of the glory of his face, a glory that was fading. If this is our standard way of dealing with possessives, I'm fine with the changes. However, I've always written **Jesus'** and **Moses'** At some point, we may need to do a search through other resources and standardize this. ----------- SQ Though in the past I felt strongly for using 's on their names, I don't feel so strongly about it now. I wonder if we want to ask how people feel about it. If most people who have a preference prefer just the apostrophe, maybe we should go back to it. -- I'm thinking Chris, Tom, Henry, Drew, Bob, you, and me. If we change back to **Jesus's** and **Moses's**, we need to makes sure that each instance of **Jesus'** and **Moses'** really has an apostrophe and not a final single quote mark. And you're right. Whatever we decide, we need to make sure the resources match -- at least the ones that are based on the ULB. (I checked the WA Style Guidelines on Sharepoint, and it does not address this.)

SusanQuigley added the

John

label 2020-04-01 17:36:08 +00:00

JohnH added

Tom

and removed

John

labels 2020-04-03 19:54:30 +00:00

bobj commented

2020-04-04 13:14:18 +00:00

BobJ

For what it's worth -

First preference: Avoid such possessives whenever possible
Second preference: Jesus' and Moses'

BobJ For what it's worth - * First preference: Avoid such possessives whenever possible * Second preference: Jesus' and Moses'

TomWarren commented

2020-04-04 13:26:44 +00:00

I thought we followed NIV11 for marking possessives.

Tom

I thought we followed NIV11 for marking possessives. Tom

hmw3 commented

2020-04-06 12:25:06 +00:00

I'm happy to be the one to do the dog work to implement whatever policy is decided on.

SusanQuigley commented

2020-04-06 12:46:39 +00:00

Owner

I knew about following the NIV 2011 for the spelling of names. I didn't realize it was also for the possessives. But here's what's on the NIV website.

Exodus 17:12
When Moses’ hands grew tired, they took a stone and put it under him and he sat on it. ...

I knew about following the NIV 2011 for the spelling of names. I didn't realize it was also for the possessives. But here's what's on the NIV website. Exodus 17:12 When **Moses’** hands grew tired, they took a stone and put it under him and he sat on it. ...

chrisjarka commented

2020-04-06 13:49:19 +00:00

Owner

In the "Decisions Concerning the ULB" file there is this statement under ULB Style heading - Spelling of names, in most cases, follows that used in the 2011 NIV. (This includes translating Ἑβραϊστί as "Aramaic (language)."

I'd like to suggest that the possessives style is also included in this statement or as a separate bullet point.

In the "Decisions Concerning the ULB" file there is this statement under ULB Style heading - Spelling of names, in most cases, follows that used in the 2011 NIV. (This includes translating Ἑβραϊστί as "Aramaic (language)." I'd like to suggest that the possessives style is also included in this statement or as a separate bullet point.

TomWarren commented

2020-04-06 14:14:04 +00:00

This is the current ULB in SmartGit: (with push and sync accomplished)

\v 12 When Moses's hands became heavy, ....

FYI ...

Should be
\v 12 When Moses' hand became heavy, ....

This is the current ULB in SmartGit: (with push and sync accomplished) \v 12 When Moses's hands became heavy, .... FYI ... Should be \v 12 When Moses' hand became heavy, ....

SusanQuigley commented

2020-04-06 14:24:20 +00:00

Owner

Henry, could you change Moses's and Jesus's to Moses' and Jesus' in the ULB, UDB, TN, TW, TQ, and TM?

I'll update the info in "Decisions concerning the ULB.

The possessive form of names ending in "s" is written as it is in the 2011 NIV (Jesus' name, Moses' hand, days of Cyrus).

Henry, please check how the NIV handles Cyrus's days, Phinehas's son, and Ahasuerus's reign .

NIV avoids the issue in Ezra 1:1 and 1:5 by using the "of Cyrus".
NIV 1Sa 4:19 His daughter-in-law, the wife of Phinehas
NIV 1Ch 6:50 Phinehas his son,
NIV Ezra 4:6 At the beginning of the reign of Xerxes.
NIV Ezra 4:6 Then at the beginning of Ahasuerus's \f + \ft Also known as \fqa Xerxes \fqa* . \f* reign

Henry, could you change Moses's and Jesus's to Moses' and Jesus' in the ULB, UDB, TN, TW, TQ, and TM? I'll update the info in "Decisions concerning the ULB. * The possessive form of names ending in "s" is written as it is in the 2011 NIV (Jesus' name, Moses' hand, days of Cyrus). Henry, please check how the NIV handles Cyrus's days, Phinehas's son, and Ahasuerus's reign . NIV avoids the issue in Ezra 1:1 and 1:5 by using the "of Cyrus". NIV 1Sa 4:19 His daughter-in-law, the wife of Phinehas NIV 1Ch 6:50 Phinehas his son, NIV Ezra 4:6 At the beginning of the reign of Xerxes. NIV Ezra 4:6 Then at the beginning of Ahasuerus's \f + \ft Also known as \fqa Xerxes \fqa* . \f* reign

SusanQuigley removed the

Tom

label 2020-04-08 19:41:55 +00:00

SusanQuigley added the

Henry

label 2020-04-08 19:56:04 +00:00

hmw3 commented

2020-04-15 19:09:23 +00:00

Done. We can close this.