1KI 7:23-26 "The Sea"

bobj commented

2021-12-28 20:12:52 +00:00

23 Huram made the round sea of cast metal, ten cubits from brim to brim. Its height was five cubits, and the sea was thirty cubits in circumference. 24 Under the brim encircling the sea were gourds, ten in each cubit, cast in one piece with "The Sea," when that basin was cast. 25 "The Sea" stood on twelve oxen, three looking toward the north, three looking toward the west, three looking toward the south, and three looking toward the east. "The Sea" was set on top of them, and all their hindquarters were toward the inside. 26 The sea was as thick as the width of a hand, and its brim was forged like the brim of a cup, like a lily blossom. The sea held two thousand baths of water.

ISSUE: Inconsistency between "the sea" and "The Sea" in this passage (also see vv. 39, 44; I did not check elsewhere).

23 Huram made the round sea of cast metal, ten cubits from brim to brim. Its height was five cubits, and the sea was thirty cubits in circumference. 24 Under the brim encircling the sea were gourds, ten in each cubit, cast in one piece with "The Sea," when that basin was cast. 25 "The Sea" stood on twelve oxen, three looking toward the north, three looking toward the west, three looking toward the south, and three looking toward the east. "The Sea" was set on top of them, and all their hindquarters were toward the inside. 26 The sea was as thick as the width of a hand, and its brim was forged like the brim of a cup, like a lily blossom. The sea held two thousand baths of water. ISSUE: Inconsistency between "the sea" and "The Sea" in this passage (also see vv. 39, 44; I did not check elsewhere).

SusanQuigley commented

2021-12-28 22:13:43 +00:00

Owner

English dictionaries do not have this definition for "sea", so I would rather just use an English word like basin (NLT), tank (GNT), pool (GWT), or bath.
I see that Bibles in other languages also use their word for 'sea'. So we might want to go with that tradition.
Some English versions capitalize Sea, but I don't know why. Is it only to show that it's not the ordinary use of the word sea? That has not been a reason for capitalizing other words in the ULB.
I don't think it's good to use quote marks all the time just to show that it's not the ordinary use of the word.
I think it would be good to either use a normal English word or to use 'sea' without capitalization or quote marks.

* English dictionaries do not have this definition for "sea", so I would rather just use an English word like basin (NLT), tank (GNT), pool (GWT), or bath. * I see that Bibles in other languages also use their word for 'sea'. So we might want to go with that tradition. * Some English versions capitalize Sea, but I don't know why. Is it only to show that it's not the ordinary use of the word sea? That has not been a reason for capitalizing other words in the ULB. * I don't think it's good to use quote marks all the time just to show that it's not the ordinary use of the word. * I think it would be good to either use a normal English word or to use 'sea' without capitalization or quote marks.

SusanQuigley added the

John

label 2021-12-28 22:13:56 +00:00

JohnH commented

2022-01-07 20:43:07 +00:00

Owner

I think for now use 'sea' without capitalization or quote marks. For a later revision we can decide if we want to change the word.

JohnH added

Susan

and removed

John

labels 2022-01-07 20:43:19 +00:00

SusanQuigley commented

2022-01-10 20:46:30 +00:00

Owner

I started removing the capitalization and quote marks, and then I checked TW and found that there is nothing in TW for this word. Verse 44 refers to it as a large basin called "The Sea" as if it is the name of the basin. I wonder if that is what led a translator to capitalize it and put it in quotes.

\v 44 He made the large basin called "The Sea" with its twelve oxen under it;

Might it be good to capitalize "Sea" all the time when it is the name for the basin?
Also, the ULB sonds odd using a noun everytime instead of a pronoun. Hebrew doesn't use the noun as much. What would you think of me changing "the Sea" to "it" sometimes. I highlighted my suggested changes below.

\v 23 Huram made the round Sea of cast metal, ten cubits from brim to brim. Its height was five cubits, and it was thirty cubits in circumference.
\v 24 Under the brim encircling the the Sea were gourds, ten in each cubit, cast in one piece with it when that basin was cast.

\s5
\v 25 The Sea stood on twelve oxen, three looking toward the north, three looking toward the west, three looking toward the south, and three looking toward the east. It was set on top of them, and all their hindquarters were toward the inside.
\v 26 The Sea was as thick as the width of a hand, and its brim was forged like the brim of a cup, like a lily blossom. The Sea held two thousand baths of water.

\v 39 He made five stands on the south-facing side of the temple and five on the north-facing side of the temple. He set the Sea on the east corner, facing toward the south of the temple.

\v 44 He made the large basin called the Sea with its twelve oxen under it;

TN has the following note for 7:23
the round sea
This refers to a bronze tank or basin that would hold water.

Perhpas the note could be changed to this:
the round Sea
This refers to a particular bronze tank or basin in the temple. It was very large and held a lot of water. Apparently it was given the name "the Sea".

I started removing the capitalization and quote marks, and then I checked TW and found that there is nothing in TW for this word. Verse 44 refers to it as a large basin called "The Sea" as if it is the name of the basin. I wonder if that is what led a translator to capitalize it and put it in quotes. \v 44 He made the large basin called "The Sea" with its twelve oxen under it; Might it be good to capitalize "Sea" all the time when it is the name for the basin? Also, the ULB sonds odd using a noun everytime instead of a pronoun. Hebrew doesn't use the noun as much. What would you think of me changing "the Sea" to "it" sometimes. I highlighted my suggested changes below. \v 23 Huram made the round **Sea** of cast metal, ten cubits from brim to brim. Its height was five cubits, and **it** was thirty cubits in circumference. \v 24 Under the brim encircling the the **Sea** were gourds, ten in each cubit, cast in one piece with **it** when that basin was cast. \s5 \v 25 The **Sea** stood on twelve oxen, three looking toward the north, three looking toward the west, three looking toward the south, and three looking toward the east. **It** was set on top of them, and all their hindquarters were toward the inside. \v 26 The **Sea** was as thick as the width of a hand, and its brim was forged like the brim of a cup, like a lily blossom. The **Sea** held two thousand baths of water. \v 39 He made five stands on the south-facing side of the temple and five on the north-facing side of the temple. He set **the Sea** on the east corner, facing toward the south of the temple. \v 44 He made the large basin called **the Sea** with its twelve oxen under it; ------ TN has the following note for 7:23 **the round sea** This refers to a bronze tank or basin that would hold water. Perhpas the note could be changed to this: **the round Sea** This refers to a particular bronze tank or basin in the temple. It was very large and held a lot of water. Apparently it was given the name "the Sea".

SusanQuigley added

John

and removed

Susan

labels 2022-01-10 20:48:39 +00:00

JohnH commented

2022-02-18 19:55:10 +00:00

Owner

I think I still lean towards lowercase "sea" without quotations, but I am ok with it capitalized as long as we are consistent.

I'm fine with using a pronoun where you suggested.

I'm also good with your note change, but I would simplify the last sentence to this: It was called “the sea”.

I think I still lean towards lowercase "sea" without quotations, but I am ok with it capitalized as long as we are consistent. I'm fine with using a pronoun where you suggested. I'm also good with your note change, but I would simplify the last sentence to this: It was called “the sea”.

JohnH added

Susan

and removed

John

labels 2022-02-18 19:55:23 +00:00

SusanQuigley commented

2022-02-23 17:48:49 +00:00

Owner

Thanks, John. I used lower case "sea" without quote marks.

SusanQuigley closed this issue

2022-02-23 17:48:52 +00:00

1KI 7:23-26 "The Sea" #1033