Zec 1:7 confusing 'saying'

SusanQuigley commented

2021-11-05 19:04:55 +00:00

Owner

\v 7 On the twenty-fourth day of the eleventh month, which is the month of Shebat, in the second year of Darius' reign, the word of Yahweh came to Zechariah son of Berekiah son of Iddo, the prophet, saying,
\v 8 "I saw in the night, and, look! A man was riding on a red horse, and he was among the myrtle trees that are in the valley; and behind him there were red, reddish-brown, and white horses."
\v 9 I said, "What are these things, Lord?" Then the angel who talked with me said to me, "I will show you what these things are."

The word "saying" is in the Hebrew. But it gives the impression that it was Yahweh who said what is in verses 8 and 9 (That is that it was Yahweh who saw in the night.) Many versions leave 'saying' out. (Some versions replace it with "as follows", but I don't think it helps.

What would you think of deleting 'saying'?

Also 1:8 is in quote marks as if the Lord said the words. What would you think of deleting those quote marks. ESV has quote marks, but they are for all of what Zecharian describes in 8-17.
What would you think of deleting the quote marks around v. 8?

We have a tN, but it doesn't help. It reinforces that what follows is God's words.

the word of Yahweh came
This idiom is used to introduce a special message from God. See how you translated this in Zechariah 1:1. Alternate translation: “Yahweh gave a message” or “Yawheh spoke this message” (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-idiom)

Or we could change the TN and add a second. (But I'm not sure how to write it.)

the word of Yahweh came to Zechariah
This idiom is used to introduce a special message from God. See how you translated this in Zechariah 1:1. Alternate translation: “Yahweh gave a message to Zechariah” or “Yawheh spoke to Zechariah” (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-idiom)

saying
The word "saying" introduces the message that Yahweh gave. But what follows is not the words that Yahweh spoke. Rather Zechariah tells about how God gave his message. Many versions leave out this word.

\v 7 On the twenty-fourth day of the eleventh month, which is the month of Shebat, in the second year of Darius' reign, the word of Yahweh came to Zechariah son of Berekiah son of Iddo, the prophet, **saying,** \v 8 "I saw in the night, and, look! A man was riding on a red horse, and he was among the myrtle trees that are in the valley; and behind him there were red, reddish-brown, and white horses." \v 9 I said, "What are these things, Lord?" Then the angel who talked with me said to me, "I will show you what these things are." The word "saying" is in the Hebrew. But it gives the impression that it was Yahweh who said what is in verses 8 and 9 (That is that it was Yahweh who saw in the night.) Many versions leave 'saying' out. (Some versions replace it with "as follows", but I don't think it helps. **What would you think of deleting 'saying'?** Also 1:8 is in quote marks as if the Lord said the words. What would you think of deleting those quote marks. ESV has quote marks, but they are for all of what Zecharian describes in 8-17. **What would you think of deleting the quote marks around v. 8?** We have a tN, but it doesn't help. It reinforces that what follows is God's words. **the word of Yahweh came** This idiom is used to introduce a special message from God. See how you translated this in Zechariah 1:1. Alternate translation: “Yahweh gave a message” or “Yawheh spoke this message” (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-idiom) Or we could change the TN and add a second. (But I'm not sure how to write it.) **the word of Yahweh came to Zechariah** This idiom is used to introduce a special message from God. See how you translated this in Zechariah 1:1. Alternate translation: “Yahweh gave a message to Zechariah” or “Yawheh spoke to Zechariah” (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-idiom) **saying** The word "saying" introduces the message that Yahweh gave. But what follows is not the words that Yahweh spoke. Rather Zechariah tells about how God gave his message. Many versions leave out this word.

JohnH commented

2021-11-08 13:48:32 +00:00

Owner

I think for now leave the text as is and clarify the speaker in the notes.

the prophet, saying,

Here the word "saying" introduces what Ezekiel was about to say. The word "saying" can be removed if it may make your readers think that Yahweh is about to speak. Alternate translation: "the prophet."

On 1:8

I saw in the night
Here the word "I" refers to Ezekiel. Alternate translation: "I, Ezekiel, saw in the night"

I think for now leave the text as is and clarify the speaker in the notes. **the prophet, saying,** Here the word "saying" introduces what Ezekiel was about to say. The word "saying" can be removed if it may make your readers think that Yahweh is about to speak. Alternate translation: "the prophet." On 1:8 **I saw in the night** Here the word "I" refers to Ezekiel. Alternate translation: "I, Ezekiel, saw in the night"

JohnH added the

Susan

label 2021-11-08 13:49:03 +00:00

SusanQuigley commented

2021-11-09 14:26:56 +00:00

Author

Owner

Thanks. I added those TNs (but changed the name to Zechariah).
I also deleted the quote marks around verse 8 since it is Zechariah speaking in both 8 and 9.

Thanks. I added those TNs (but changed the name to Zechariah). I also deleted the quote marks around verse 8 since it is Zechariah speaking in both 8 and 9.

SusanQuigley commented

2021-11-09 14:35:04 +00:00

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Owner

Would it be good to to change the comma after "saying" to a colon and to remove the double quote at the end of the chapter? The next chapter is part of the same vision, but it has nothing marking it as a quote.

SusanQuigley added the

John

label 2021-11-09 14:35:16 +00:00

JohnH commented

2021-11-09 14:43:27 +00:00

Owner

I'm fine either way concerning the comma or colon.

If we change the quotation at the end of the chapter, will it make a mess in chapter 2? For instance, should 2:2 have single quotes?

I'm fine either way concerning the comma or colon. If we change the quotation at the end of the chapter, will it make a mess in chapter 2? For instance, should 2:2 have single quotes?

SusanQuigley commented

2021-11-09 14:57:26 +00:00

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Owner

I think using double quotes marks around 1:8-21 would make a mess through chapter 6, since all of that appears to be the message the LORD gave him on the twenty-fourth day of the eleventh month.
I think it's easier not to have that whole message/vision in quotes.

I think using double quotes marks around 1:8-21 would make a mess through chapter 6, since all of that appears to be the message the LORD gave him on the twenty-fourth day of the eleventh month. I think it's easier not to have that whole message/vision in quotes.

SusanQuigley closed this issue

2021-11-09 14:57:27 +00:00

SusanQuigley removed the

Susan

label 2021-11-09 14:57:36 +00:00

Zec 1:7 confusing 'saying' #1014