Death

SusanQuigley commented

2022-04-05 17:42:03 +00:00

Owner

https://content.bibletranslationtools.org/WycliffeAssociates/en_tw/src/branch/master/bible/other/death.md

Translation Suggestions:

To translate this term, it is best to use the everyday, natural word or expression in the target language that refers to death.
In some languages, to “die” may be expressed as to “not live.” The term “dead” may be translated as “not alive” or “not having any life” or “not living.”
Many languages use figurative expressions to describe death, such as to “pass away” in English. However, in the Bible it is best to use the most direct term for death that is used in everyday language.
In the Bible, physical life and death are often compared to spiritual life and death. It is important in a translation to use the same word or phrase for both physical death and spiritual death.
In some languages it may be more clear to say “spiritual death” when the context requires that meaning. Some translators may also feel it is best to say “physical death” in contexts where it is being contrasted to spiritual death.
The expression “the dead” is a nominal adjective that refers to people who have died. Some languages will translate this as “dead people” or “people who have died.” (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-nominaladj)
The expression “put to death” could also be translated as “kill” or “murder” or “execute.”

MaryEllen is working on the printed copy. She noticed that the 4th and 5th bullets seem to be saying opposite things and asked if it would it be good to put "death" in quotes in the 4th bullet's second sentence.

I think the first statement in the 4th bullet is odd. Does the Bible compare physical death (something known) to spiritual death (something unknown)? Usually speakers/writers compare something unknown to something that is known to help others understand the unknown thing.

I think the second statement in the 4th bullet is covered by the first bullet.

I wonder why we have the third bullet. What is wrong with using figurative expressions for death? The Bible sometimes uses them.

What would you think of this for the whole thing? (The bold is only to show the changes.)

Translation Suggestions:

To translate the words “die,” “death,” and “dead,” it is usally best to use the everyday, natural words or expressions in the target language that refer to death. This is true both when "death" refers to physical death and when it refers to spiritual death.
In some languages it may be more clear to say “spiritual death” when the context requires that meaning. Some translators may also feel it is best to say “physical death” in passages where physical death is contrasted with spiritual death.
In some languages, to “die” may be expressed as to “not live.” The term “dead” may be translated as “not alive” or “not having any life” or “not living.”
The expression “the dead” is a nominal adjective that refers to people who have died. Some languages will translate this as “dead people” or “people who have died.” (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-nominaladj)
The expression “put to death” could also be translated as “kill” or “murder” or “execute.”

https://content.bibletranslationtools.org/WycliffeAssociates/en_tw/src/branch/master/bible/other/death.md **Translation Suggestions:** * To translate this term, it is best to use the everyday, natural word or expression in the target language that refers to death. * In some languages, to “die” may be expressed as to “not live.” The term “dead” may be translated as “not alive” or “not having any life” or “not living.” * Many languages use figurative expressions to describe death, such as to “pass away” in English. However, in the Bible it is best to use the most direct term for death that is used in everyday language. * **In the Bible, physical life and death are often compared to spiritual life and death. It is important in a translation to use the same word or phrase for both physical death and spiritual death.** * **In some languages it may be more clear to say “spiritual death” when the context requires that meaning. Some translators may also feel it is best to say “physical death” in contexts where it is being contrasted to spiritual death.** * The expression “the dead” is a nominal adjective that refers to people who have died. Some languages will translate this as “dead people” or “people who have died.” (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-nominaladj) * The expression “put to death” could also be translated as “kill” or “murder” or “execute.” MaryEllen is working on the printed copy. She noticed that the 4th and 5th bullets seem to be saying opposite things and asked if it would it be good to put "death" in quotes in the 4th bullet's second sentence. I think the first statement in the 4th bullet is odd. Does the Bible compare physical death (something known) to spiritual death (something unknown)? Usually speakers/writers compare something unknown to something that is known to help others understand the unknown thing. I think the second statement in the 4th bullet is covered by the first bullet. I wonder why we have the third bullet. What is wrong with using figurative expressions for death? The Bible sometimes uses them. What would you think of this for the whole thing? (The bold is only to show the changes.) **Translation Suggestions:** * To translate **the words “die,” “death,” and “dead,” it is usally best** to use the everyday, natural words or expressions in the target language that refer to death. **This is true both when "death" refers to physical death and when it refers to spiritual death.** * **In some languages it may be more clear to say “spiritual death” when the context requires that meaning. Some translators may also feel it is best to say “physical death” in passages where physical death is contrasted with spiritual death.** * In some languages, to “die” may be expressed as to “not live.” The term “dead” may be translated as “not alive” or “not having any life” or “not living.” * The expression “the dead” is a nominal adjective that refers to people who have died. Some languages will translate this as “dead people” or “people who have died.” (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-nominaladj) * The expression “put to death” could also be translated as “kill” or “murder” or “execute.”

SusanQuigley added the

John H

label 2022-04-07 15:23:15 +00:00

SusanQuigley added the

Drew

label 2022-04-07 16:26:27 +00:00

drewc commented

2022-04-07 19:04:41 +00:00

Owner

I like it but I would not disambiguate death because it would be an exegetical decision to do so. Can we just remove the bullet:In some languages it may be more clear to say “spiritual death” when the context requires that meaning. Some translators may also feel it is best to say “physical death” in passages where physical death is contrasted with spiritual death?

JohnH commented

2022-04-07 20:51:42 +00:00

Owner

Telling translators they can add "spiritual" or "physical" to "death" could be tricky. It would have been better if we had given that suggestion in the notes for specific situations, but we did not in the couple of places I looked.

I'm ok with Susan's changes and with leaving out her second bullet.

If we do that, we may want to look at the "life" TW and consider removing the sixth bullet point under "translation suggestions."

Telling translators they can add "spiritual" or "physical" to "death" could be tricky. It would have been better if we had given that suggestion in the notes for specific situations, but we did not in the couple of places I looked. I'm ok with Susan's changes and with leaving out her second bullet. If we do that, we may want to look at the "life" TW and consider removing the sixth bullet point under "translation suggestions."

SusanQuigley commented

2022-04-08 13:28:19 +00:00

Author

Owner

Translation Suggestions for "life"

The 7th bullet seems to have the same problem as the 6th. Would it be good to remove both?

Depending on the context, “life” can be translated as “existence” or “person” or “soul” or “being” or “experience.”
Depending on the context the term “live” could be translated by “dwell” or “reside” or “exist.”
The expression “end of his life” could be translated as “when he stopped living.”
The expression “spared their lives” could be translated as “allowed them to live” or “did not kill them.”
The expression “they risked their lives” could be translated as “they put themselves in danger” or “they did something that could have killed them.”
* When the Bible text talks about being alive spiritually, “life” could be translated as “spiritual life” or “eternal life,” depending on the context.
* The concept of “spiritual life” could also be translated as “God making us alive in our spirits” or “new life by God’s Spirit” or “being made alive in our inner self.”
Depending on the context, the expression “give life” could also be translated as “cause to live” or “give eternal life” or “cause to live eternally.” The word “life-giving” can be translated as “something that causes to live” or “something that gives life.”

Translation Suggestions for "life" The 7th bullet seems to have the same problem as the 6th. Would it be good to remove both? * Depending on the context, “life” can be translated as “existence” or “person” or “soul” or “being” or “experience.” * **Depending on the context** the term “live” could be translated by “dwell” or “reside” or “exist.” * The expression “end of his life” could be translated as “when he stopped living.” * The expression “spared their lives” could be translated as “allowed them to live” or “did not kill them.” * The expression “they risked their lives” could be translated as “they put themselves in danger” or “they did something that could have killed them.” ~~* When the Bible text talks about being alive spiritually, “life” could be translated as “spiritual life” or “eternal life,” depending on the context.~~ ~~* The concept of “spiritual life” could also be translated as “God making us alive in our spirits” or “new life by God’s Spirit” or “being made alive in our inner self.”~~ * Depending on the context, the expression “give life” could also be translated as “cause to live” or “give eternal life” or “cause to live eternally.” The word “life-giving” can be translated as “something that causes to live” or “something that gives life.”

JohnH commented

2022-04-08 19:27:43 +00:00

Owner

Yes, I think we could delete both.