SusanQuigley commented

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When the passive voice is translated, a form of the verb to be is before it and the word by is after it. The word in the nominative case is often after the word by or with. A word in the accusative case is often before the verb to be.

Could this be changed to this?
When the passive voice is translated into English, a form of the verb to be is before it and the word by is after it. The word in the nominative case is often after the word by or with. A word in the accusative case is often before the verb to be.

Hmmm. I don't understand those last two sentences. Are they about English or Greek or both?

Matt 1:16 by whom Jesus was born. "Jesus" has nominative case.
Matt 1:20 the one [Nominative] who is conceived [Passive Participle Nominative] in her is conceived [no Greek word] by [ek] the Holy Spirit [Genitive]
Matt 2:5 this is what {Thus} was written by [dia] the prophet [Genitive],

I don't expect to see accusative case with a passive construction.

I'll come back to this.

**More information about this topic** When the passive voice is translated, a form of the verb to be is before it and the word by is after it. The word in the nominative case is often after the word by or with. A word in the accusative case is often before the verb to be. Could this be changed to this? When the passive voice is translated into English, a form of the verb ***to be*** is before it and the word ***by*** is after it. The word in the nominative case is often after the word by or with. A word in the accusative case is often before the verb ***to be***. Hmmm. I don't understand those last two sentences. Are they about English or Greek or both? Matt 1:16 by whom Jesus was born. "Jesus" has nominative case. Matt 1:20 the one [Nominative] who is conceived [Passive Participle Nominative] in her is conceived [no Greek word] by [ek] the Holy Spirit [Genitive] Matt 2:5 this is what {Thus} was written by [dia] the prophet [Genitive], I don't expect to see accusative case with a passive construction. I'll come back to this.

drewc commented

2023-06-02 00:10:02 +00:00

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It is supposed to be about whether the nom. in a passive contruction is still the subject, or does it become the object. The opposite for the acc. case.

SusanQuigley commented

2023-06-07 20:14:39 +00:00

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I would suggest the following. I show the results below.

Just deal with the verb in the first section.
Move the part about case to the section on "More info about this topic" and make it clearer.
Delete the explanation about how the passive is translated into English.

I don't understand the first three bullet points under "How else can the passive voice be used?"

Passive

Passive is a voice. Voice is the form of a verb that helps someone to know how other words relate to the verb.

When a verb has the passive voice, the person or thing that receives the action or is acted upon is the subject of the verb.

What types of words use voice?

Verbs

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The subject of the verb has nominative case. If the speaker mentions the person or thing that does the action, that word follows a prepostion and has whatever case the preposition requires.

How else can the passive voice be used in a sentence?

It can tell the reader that the subject is the same subject as in the previous sentence.
It can tell the reader that the subject can allow the action to happen or give permission for the action to happen.
It can tell the reader that the subject can cause the action to happen.
It can be used when the speaker or writer did not want to say who did an action. It is often used in this way when God was the one doing an action.

I would suggest the following. I show the results below. * Just deal with the verb in the first section. * Move the part about case to the section on "More info about this topic" and make it clearer. * Delete the explanation about how the passive is translated into English. I don't understand the first three bullet points under "How else can the passive voice be used?" ------- # Passive Passive is a voice. Voice is the form of a verb that helps someone to know how other words relate to the verb. When a verb has the passive voice, the person or thing that receives the action or is acted upon is the subject of the verb. ## What types of words use voice? * **Verbs** ### More information about this topic The subject of the verb has nominative case. If the speaker mentions the person or thing that does the action, that word follows a prepostion and has whatever case the preposition requires. *How else can the passive voice be used in a sentence?* * It can tell the reader that the subject is the same subject as in the previous sentence. * It can tell the reader that the subject can allow the action to happen or give permission for the action to happen. * It can tell the reader that the subject can cause the action to happen. * It can be used when the speaker or writer did not want to say who did an action. It is often used in this way when God was the one doing an action.

drewc commented

2023-06-07 20:29:31 +00:00

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I think there is confusion.

When a verb has the passive voice, the person or thing that receives the action or is acted upon is the subject of the verb. (true)

The subject of the verb has nominative case. (false or confusing)

Who is the subject of a passive verb? What this is trying to communicate is: Take the sentence "the man was hit by the ball", the man would be nominative and the ball would be accusative. It is reversed.

I think there is confusion. When a verb has the passive voice, the person or thing that receives the action or is acted upon is the subject of the verb. (true) The subject of the verb has nominative case. (false or confusing) Who is the subject of a passive verb? What this is trying to communicate is: Take the sentence "the man was hit by the ball", the man would be nominative and the ball would be accusative. It is reversed.

drewc commented

2023-06-07 20:42:27 +00:00

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When a verb has the passive voice it is different than a verb in the active voice. In the active voice, the reader knows which person or thing doing the action because that thing occurs in the nominative case. The reader knows which person or thing that receives the action or is acted upon because it is in the accusative case. With a verb in the passive voice, the opposite is true. The reader knows which person or thing doing the action because that thing occurs in the accusative case. The reader knows which person or thing that receives the action or is acted upon because it is in the accusative case.

SusanQuigley commented

2023-06-07 21:41:10 +00:00

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You're right. There are some cases of passive verbs in Greek that have apparent accusative objects. Wayne Leman wrote about this in 2001.
http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/test-archives/html4/2001-10/7575.html

I'll look at this later.

You're right. There are some cases of passive verbs in Greek that have apparent accusative objects. Wayne Leman wrote about this in 2001. http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/test-archives/html4/2001-10/7575.html I'll look at this later.

SusanQuigley commented

2023-06-08 16:48:08 +00:00

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Passive verbs and words with accusative case. (I just gave the English glosses from Bible hub.)

The passages you gave: The nouns with accusative case are all objects of prepositions, not of the verb.

Rom 14:15
on.acount.of (prep) food (N-ANS) the brother of.you is.grieved (V-PIM/P-3S)
Preposition = διὰ

2 Cor 4:11
we the living to (prep) death (N-AMS) are.being.delivered on.account.of (Prep) Jesus (N-AMS)
Prepositions εἰς and διὰ

Eph 2:22
you are.being.built.together (V-PIM/P-2P) for (Prep) a.habitation (N-ANS)
Preposition = εἰς.

Leman's examples of where a passive verb appears to have an accusative object.

Matt 10:26
Not therefore you.should.fear (V-ASP-2P) them (PPro-AM3P)
(According to Leman, phobeó has no active forms in the GNT.)

Matt 15:5
whatever (RelPro-ANS) if by me you.might.be.profited (V-ASP-2S) by me is a gift,"

Mark 10:38
which (RelPro-ANS) I.am.baptized (V-ANP)

Matt 21:37
they.will.respect (V-FIP-3P) the son (N-AMS) of me

Rom 3:2
they.were.entrusted.with (V-AIP-3P) the oracles (N-ANP) of God

I don't think we can say the following about these:
With a verb in the passive voice, the opposite is true. The reader knows which person or thing doing the action because that thing occurs in the accusative case.

I'll think about this some more.

Passive verbs and words with accusative case. (I just gave the English glosses from Bible hub.) **The passages you gave:** The nouns with accusative case are all objects of prepositions, not of the verb. Rom 14:15 **on.acount.of (prep) food (N-ANS)** the brother of.you is.grieved (V-PIM/P-3S) Preposition = διὰ 2 Cor 4:11 we the living **to (prep) death (N-AMS)** are.being.delivered **on.account.of (Prep) Jesus (N-AMS)** Prepositions εἰς and διὰ Eph 2:22 you are.being.built.together (V-PIM/P-2P) **for (Prep) a.habitation (N-ANS)** Preposition = εἰς. **Leman's examples** of where a passive verb appears to have an accusative object. Matt 10:26 Not therefore you.should.fear (V-ASP-2P) **them (PPro-AM3P**) (According to Leman, phobeó has no active forms in the GNT.) Matt 15:5 **whatever (RelPro-ANS)** if by me you.might.be.profited (V-ASP-2S) by me is a gift," Mark 10:38 **which (RelPro-ANS)** I.am.baptized (V-ANP) Matt 21:37 they.will.respect (V-FIP-3P) **the son (N-AMS)** of me Rom 3:2 they.were.entrusted.with (V-AIP-3P) **the oracles (N-ANP)** of God I don't think we can say the following about these: With a verb in the passive voice, the opposite is true. The reader knows which person or thing doing the action because that thing occurs in the accusative case. I'll think about this some more.

Passive #38

Passive

What types of words use voice?

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