See in Reader
Angel #38
Loading…
Reference in New Issue
No description provided.
Delete Branch "%!s(<nil>)"
Deleting a branch is permanent. Although the deleted branch may continue to exist for a short time before it actually gets removed, it CANNOT be undone in most cases. Continue?
https://content.bibletranslationtools.org/WycliffeAssociates/en_bc/src/branch/master/articles/angel.md
I received this comment:
Advice to translators: A “being” is something that is alive. However, it is not a person or an animal..
Comment. A being is defined as something or someone having existence and biblically is often said to be a heavenly or an earthly being.
I don't particularly agree with the statement that the translator suggested. "Having existence" is not very WIT, and it does not define "being." A rock has existence but is not a being.
But, I open to clarifying the definition of "being" if needed.
It seems that we used this definition in several places in commentary and articles, so if we change the definition, it may require quite a bit of work in the English and GL material.
I think this is splitting hairs. I think a change opens things up to the philosophical issue you mentioned; what is alive? I do not know how we could possibly clarify this without undue complexity, maybe Susan will have an idea. I am fine with keeping it as is.
Advice to translators: A “being” is something that is alive. However, it is not a person or an animal.
I think it's fine to say that a "being" is something that is alive. But I don't know what is meant by "it is not a person or an animal." I think of people as a type of being. Maybe that second sentence isn't needed.
or
Advice to translators: A “being” is something lives, such as God, people, angels, and other spirits.
Are the translators that Gateway Language translators?
I like the second just fine, but if we are making the change and giving examples, I think we need to clarify whether or not plants are "alive". I like the ambiguity of the first one a little better for this reason. However, that is personal preference.
In the commentary and articles, it looks like we only use "being" and the current definition for "being" in reference to spiritual beings, not humans, animals, or plants.
It occurs in these articles: angel, demon, satan, and spiritual warfare.
It is in Ephesians 6 with more explanation: Advice to translators: A being is a something that is alive, but it is not an animal or a person. Angels and demons are not people, but they are not animals either. However, they are alive and do not die.
In 1 Thess 2, the same definition is used for "creature" in reference to Satan.
Paul wanted his readers to know that Satan is a real creature (See: Romans 16:20; 1 Corinthians 7:5; 2 Corinthians 2:11, 11:13-15). He also wanted them to know that Satan wants to stop people from hearing about Jesus. Paul taught people about Jesus, so Satan did things to try to stop him.
Advice to translators: A creature is something that is alive. It is not a person and it is not an animal.
Since we are not talking about humans or animals, maybe we should make the definition a little more specific.
Suggestion
Advice to translators: Here "being" is used to talk about a spiritual being. Spiritual beings are not people or animals, but they are alive and do not die.
I am good with the suggestion. Or we can change it to "spritual beings" in the article and then define spiritual being in the advice section.
Also, I suggest removing the word creature from the Tessalonians passage and just have it read "Satan is real"
I wonder if "heavenly beings" might be better than "spiritual beings." Apparently angels have some kind of body that people can see.
I also wonder about the lower part of the angel article. It says:
Cherubim and seraphim are heavenly beings that God created, but I don't know if they are angels. In fact, the tW page for cherubim says this:
Cherubim are sometimes thought of as being angels, but the Bible does not clearly state that.
If we use "heavenly being" for angels, we may need to use something else for demons or Satan. It may be confusing to call them heavenly beings.
I'm ok with "spiritual being" as a general term. Sometimes angels can be seen, sometimes not.
I see some commentators that call cherubim and seraphim higher rank of angels, but I don't see this clearly stated in the Bible. Maybe it comes from extra-biblical sources. I'm fine changing the article to have the same statement as the tW page.
You're right. Calling demons and Satan "heavenly beings" could add unneccessary confusion.
As for cherubim and seraphim, perhaps the angel article could say
"Some people think of seraphim and cherubim as being angels, but the Bible does not clearly state that."
I changed the "angel" article to this:
There are a very large number of angels (see: Revelation 5:11). Archangels are angels that lead other angels (see: 1 Thessalonians 4:16; Jude 1:9).
There are heavenly beings call seraphim and cherubim (see: Genesis 3:24; Isaiah 6:2, 6; 37:16; Ezekiel 10:1-20). Some people think of seraphim and cherubim as being angels, but the Bible does not clearly state that.
I changed the first sentence to this:
The word “angel” is used to talk about a spiritual being whom God created. Angels are spirits who serve God. They do whatever God tells them to do.
Advice section says this:
Advice to translators: Spiritual beings are not people or animals, but they are alive and do not die.
Another option, if we change wording to "spiritual being" is to not have the "advice to translator" note, and instead link to the "spirit (spiritual)" article.
https://content.bibletranslationtools.org/WycliffeAssociates/en_bc/src/branch/master/articles/spiritspiritual.md
With that said, I noticed on the "spirit" page we said they are non-physical and cannot be touched. Should we put in there somewhere that spiritual beings can sometimes take the form of a physical being?
I like the idea of linking to the “spirit (spiritual)” article.
How aobut this for the first paragraph of “spirit (spiritual)” ?
The word “spirit” or “spiritual” is used to talk about anything in the non-physical world. In the Greek and Hebrew languages, the word for “spirit” can also be translated as “breath” or “wind.” This is because these things cannot be touched. God is a spirit (see: John 4:24), and he created other spirit beings. Spirit beings do not have physical bodies, but sometimes they take the form of a physical being. Some spirit beings are called angels (see: Hebrews 1:7). Spirit beings who rebelled against God are called demons or evil spirits (see: Luke 7:21).
Let me know if you want me to put this in a separate issue for "spirit (spiritual)".
Susan's suggestion for "spirit (spiritual)" looks good to me. I have udpated that article and GL master.
Removed advice to translator and added link to spirit (spiritual) where needed in:
Angel
Demon
Satan (The Devil)
Spiritual Warfare
Ephesians 6
1 Thess 2
I've also updated GL master where needed.