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Cross article. Another issue from GL Translator. #33
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It is really hard to follow what the translator is saying. Here is the part of the article the issue concerns:
Being crucified on a cross was the most shameful way to die during New Testament times. It was shameful because the person was said to be a criminal and hung naked for all to see him. People who do not believe in Jesus think that Jesus dying on a cross to save people from being punished for their sin is foolish (see: 1 Corinthians 1:18, 23; 2:14; Hebrews 12:2). Paul taught that God uses the things that people think are foolish to do what he needs to do. God wanted to shame people who thought they were wise. Also, he wanted to use what no one would have thought possible to save people from being punished for sinning (see: 1 Corinthians 1:18-31). For the people who believe in Jesus, the cross is God powerfully saving people from being punished for sinning. It is also God defeating evil (see: 1 Corinthians 1:18; Ephesians 2:16; Colossians 2:15). Therefore, those who believe in Jesus are not to be prideful about what they have done. Instead, they should only boast about what God did for them through Jesus dying on a cross (see: Galatians 6:14).
Here is the issue that the translator posted:
row 14.... for all to see him.....incorrect....both men and women were crucified (historical) . God wanted....suppositional towards intent...the scriptures say in 1 Corinthians 1:27 ..But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise.... , he wanted to use what no one would have thought possible to save people.....again suppositional towards intent...God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong.......grammatical error....no one would have thought it possible to thereby save people from being punished for sinning (see: 1 Corinthians 1:18-31). For the people who believe in Jesus, the cross is God powerfully saving people .....the cross is a method whereby God was powerfully making a way where people could be saved from penalty of their sin..... It is also God defeating evil.....what evil....death,sin,???? (see: 1 Corinthians 1:18; Ephesians 2:16; Colossians 2:15). Therefore, those who believe in Jesus are not to be prideful about what they have done......about anything they might have done to deserve salvation....Ephesians 2:9 Instead, they should only boast .....tnobody should boast but .. rather scripture says....let him who boasts, boast only in the LORD...about what God did for them through Jesus dying on a cross (see: Galatians 6:14). .....poorly biblically explained and grammatically dificult to follow
Like I said, it is not easy figuring out what the translator is saying. Do you see anything in here that we should change in the article?
@drewcurley @SusanQuigley
Do you see the irony of his last statement?
Ha! Yes, I saw the irony.
Here are the verses I see where "cross" does not simply refer to the wooden cross.
1Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel—not with clever speech, in order that the cross of Christ would not be emptied of its power.
1Co 1:18 For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. But among those who are being saved, it is the power of God.
Gal 5:11 Brothers, if I still proclaim circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the stumbling block of the cross has been removed.
Gal 6:12 Those who want to make a good impression in the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. They do this only to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ.
Gal 6:14 But may I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Eph 2:16 Christ reconciles both peoples into one body to God through the cross, putting to death the hostility.
Php 3:18 Many are walking—those about whom I have often told you, and now I am telling you with tears—as enemies of the cross of Christ.
Col 1:20 and through the Son to reconcile all things to himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
Col 2:14 He blotted out the written record of debts that was hostile to us with its regulations. He took it away by nailing it to the cross.
Col 2:15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
Perhaps the last paragraph on the page could be changed to the following two. I think this avoids the issue of whether or not Jesus' death was for every individual.
Sometimes the word "cross " is used to talk about Jesus' death on the cross. Sometimes it is used to talk about what Jesus did for people when he died on the cross. And sometimes it is used to talk about the message about what Jesus did for people when he died on the cross.
This is what Jesus did when he died on the cross. All people sin and deserve to be punished. That punishment is death. But Jesus never sinned, so he did not deserve to be punished. When Jesus died on the cross, he took people's punishment in order to save all who believe in him.
Changed and kept most of the scripture citations from the original paragraph.
I also removed "Law of Moses" and "Curse" from the links.
I hadn't paid attention to the verse references in the article. Maybe it would be good to add what those verses say. (I copied below from ESV).
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—
Col 2:(13,) 14. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
1Pe 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.
Maybe it would be good to add to that paragraph.
This is what Jesus did when he died on the cross. All people sin and deserve to be punished. That punishment is death. But Jesus never sinned, so he did not deserve to be punished. When Jesus died on the cross, he took people's punishment, the curse that was meant for those who sin. He did this in order to save all who believe in him, to remove the record of their sins, to forgive them, to enable them to live righteous lives, and to give them eternal life.
I still think the phrase "He did this in order to save all who believe in him" is problematic.
I think we should just remove the paragraph:
This is what Jesus did when he died on the cross. All people sin and deserve to be punished. That punishment is death. But Jesus never sinned, so he did not deserve to be punished. When Jesus died on the cross, he took people's punishment in order to save all who believe in him (see: Galatians 3:13; Colossians 2:14; 1 Peter 2:24).
This is all covered in the atonement and does not need to be covered here.
Would it help to add the word "atone" to this article to point people to the link for "atone."
Sometimes the word "cross" is used to talk about Jesus' death on the cross. Sometimes it is used to talk about what Jesus did on the cross to atone for sins. And sometimes it is used to talk about the message about what Jesus did on the cross to atone for sins.
I like that idea.
I like it too.
If the paragraph about what Jesus did on the cross is deleted, perhaps verse references could go in the the paragraph about how the word "cross" is used.
Sometimes the word "cross" is used to talk about Jesus' death on the cross (Colossians 1:20). Sometimes it is used to talk about what Jesus did on the cross to atone for sins (1 Corinthians 1:18). And sometimes it is used to talk about the message about what Jesus did on the cross to atone for sins (1 Corinthians 1:17).
I deleted the last paragraph, and I updated the other paragraph to include the word "atone" and the Scripture references.
I think we can close the issue now then